Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Lois & Clark Fanfic FDK: Butterfly Legacy, Lois's Chapter

Whoa. That was intense. Very well done, Lynn.

Thanks, Roger

PJ

Oooooh, fantastic, Lynn

I don't have much time, otherwise I'd quote more and point out all the bits I loved, but this really *really* got me;



Sara

Skimmed it as soon as I saw it - ie, at work with my coat on ready to leave. Loved what I saw, but I need to read it with the care it deserves before I give proper feedback.

Yvonne

Hi,

Great piece.

hi

Great story.

Clark slept with her poor Lois, but now he is with her and he will be ok...just love him Lois

Karla

Wow! A most excellent chapter! It's completely natural and flows almost perfectly from the original story. The only thing missing - and it's a very small thing - is the butterfly necklace. Wouldn't it have fit for Clark to bring it out and show it to Lois and tell the story of the butterflies and the Andes as he opened his heart to her? Especially since he kept it long after he and Lois married? I'd hate to think Lois would find it after a few years and be surprised, then hurt, because he didn't show it to her way back when.

But all in all, this is a wonderful postscript to The Butterfly Legacy. I applaud you for your skill, your heart, and your willingness to open your imagination for all of us lesser beings to peer into. I felt for both Clark and Lois as they delved into his torment, and I'm glad you allowed them to resolve the situation with grace and understanding. Thank you for a wonderful series.

Write more! I really like your stuff!

I've posted quite extensively in the nfic folders in response to this chapter. I hadn't intended to post here too so I'll try to be very brief.

First, let me say how much I admire Lynn's writing and this chapter is no exception. Her descriptions are very powerful - letting us feel Lois's pain and Clark's coldness to her.

And therein lies my concern - this is a Clark Kent whose love for Lois Lane is very limited - he makes it quite clear to her that he loves Gillian and he toys with Lois as he very gradually lets her know that he had sex with Gillian and that it was not his decision to return to Metropolis - he would have stayed in South America. From Lois's perspective this is a very sad chapter: she represses her emotions, letting us know how she has tried so hard to please him over the last few months, yet he has still been remote to her, witholding his affections, letting her know that he has only part of his heart to offer her. Carefully she serves him coffee, like a beauty queen, a chilling image. (see what i mean by Lynn's writing skill )

c.

Wow. I think we read two different stories with the same title, Carol. I don't recognise that synopsis as Butterfly Legacy at all.

Guess people see some things differently, huh?

LabRat

Loved this continuation. Very good. Laura

LOL, Labrat - I guess people do - but I haven't made this stuff up, honestly.<g> This is a Clark who didn't keep faith with Lois but a Lois who did ultimately keep faith with him - she didn't sleep with Luthor.

c

I say this at the risk of sounding rude, Carol, and I certainly don't mean to be, but I don't know another way to voice my concern.

You have now posted your opinion here. And in the nfic folder quite extensively. And on an unrelated poll thread.

This has grown past what I would consider constructive criticism. In fact, it's starting to make me uncomfortable.

Writers make themselves very vulnerable when they post their work. Readers understand that. And they can love a fic or hate it. They are always free to say so, good or bad.

But how many times? And to what purpose? To change a writer's story? Make them dread looking at their feedback folder?

At some point writers and readers just have to agree to disagree. If they didn't, this board would be a difficult, combative place to post.

And it isn't. It's great fun.

So, if I'm reading you right, I think what you're looking for is a characterization debate. What makes Clark Kent Clark Kent. And what makes Lois Lois. The essential things which define who they are.

Have you considered starting a poll or a thread? Finding out what others think? I imagine you'd get more responses, and the conversation would certainly be welcome and very interesting.

I really hope you'll consider it.

CC

CC, I've tried to make it very clear that I am an admirer of Lynn's writing skills. I did not think that raising questions about characterization was something to be censored. I was genuinely interested to know how Lynn (and others) saw these issues and found her comments interesting.

However I will abide by your request that I'll ... um... shut up.

c

Thanks so much to Pam, Sara, Yvonne, Maria, Karla and Terry for your kind words. I really appreciate the feedback.

Carol, you have extensively expressed your opinions on this story in the nfic thread, and I have responded - extensively - on that same thread. Too there has been debate by other posters offering you various opinions on the questions you've raised. As such, your motives for posting in this thread have crossed the threshold from genuine feedback into obvious ulterior motives. Clearly you have a deeper ax to grind with me, and whatever that is, I would prefer you just say it rather than continue this sham.

Again, thanks to all of you for reading. I appreciate it.

Lynn

Oh dear. Well, I promised I'd shut up, and now I'm breaking that promise, but Lynn's post required a reply.

After my initial feedback in the nfic folder, Lynn replied and I then replied to her criticisms of what i had written, and so that pattern continued. My posts were long because I wanted to fully explain what my ideas were and support them with examples. If you read those posts as well as Lynn's (and I trust anyone who has commented on my writing those posts has done so), I hope you will find in mine a spirited defense of Lois Lane, a curiosity about characterization in BL & BL:LC, and maybe even a logically developed argument and rebuttal ) You'll also find much that is about characterization in general as opposed to anything specific about BL and a discussion of love which I do admit can't really be classed as feedback on BL or BL:LC.
What you will *not* find there is a disrespect for Lynn as a writer.

repetition warning here: I'm a fan of both Lois Lane and Clark Kent of L & C:TNAoS and I've always been interested in characterization in fanfic. For some reason there appears to have developed a taboo on any full discussion of characterization on these boards.

Now I admit that taboo was made clear to me a couple of weeks ago by a couple of high powered people on these mbs (not folder managers I should add - hope "folder manager" is the right term). And I do admit that I ignored their censorship warning. Why on earth shouldn't we be able to have full discussions on charcaterization in fanfics?

So there it is.

Ulterior motive? insomnia, a couple of really cold days and I was housebound with the time to write more fully rather than my usual sentence fragments. And I did want to make a defense for Lois Lane.

c

I am not aware that any Admin or Moderator of these mbs has issued a 'censorship' warning to you, Carol. Nor made any indication that there is any taboo about critiquing stories (provided it's done in a civil manner). I will of course, check with them. However, I am sure none of them will mind me making quite clear to avoid any further confusion that there is no such taboo currently operating on these mbs and that any polite, civilised discussion of a story is more than welcome. If any Admin spoke to you about this, it was at an entirely unofficial level and not a reflection of board policy.

Anyone who is not clear what polite and civil debate constitutes can read the boards FAQ on what is and what is not permitted. If you are still confused, you can of course email one of the Admins who will be more than delighted to help you understand the rules.

What anyone else tells you cannot be considered official board policy and so can be safely ignored with impunity.

The problem with your recent comments on this story, Carol, has nothing to do with such emotive words as 'taboos' or 'censorship', but everything to do with the fact that many reading them have not seen your comments as simple 'questions on characterisation' at all, but something a little less civil. The way that several of your comments have been worded has not helped dispute that impression, as they've tended to give a sense of something a little more intense than simple curiosity or a wish to debate in friendly terms.

Whether you intended them to read that way or not, this has been the general impression given by them, and that is why you are being challenged on your motives.

You are, of course, more than entitled to discuss this interpretation - false or not - of your posts with anyone else. As they are entitled to challenge you. So long as it's kept civil. But let's not get carried away and make this into a board conspiracy against you or a wider issue than it actually is.

Were there genuinely a taboo against friendly characterization debate, or a will to censor, the threads on this subject would have been closed down long before this, I can assure you! Usually, someone actually has to have been censored before complaining about being censored. Had any of your posts been removed or had you been set to 'no post' or expelled from the mbs, you might have a case. But a few posts from your fellow board members challenging your viewpoint and motives certainly doesn't qualify as censorship imo when the debate is being left...well, uncensored.

If you choose not to argue your viewpoint, Carol, that's a conscious choice taken by you not to post again. A quite different thing entirely from someone else taking that choice for you and your freedom to post away.

LabRat

&
I knew I got the term wrong! I should have said "moderator" instead of "folder manager".

Taboos are informal things - norms not stated officially but conveyed in other ways. (as you are doing here, for example) And I did recieve those warnings, Labrat. But you are right of course, that no formal "censorship" has been applied by the folder moderators.

You wrote:
"What anyone else tells you cannot be considered official board policy and so can be safely ignored with impunity."
Glad to hear that because, in fact, that's what i did as I stated in my previous post.

All of us often read with a bias - subconsciously "prejudging" what we process in terms of our values, life experiences, and who our friends are (and are not.) Objective reading is more difficult than it seems. (and I'm including myself here too)

If you read *all* of the relevant posts carefully and objectively I think you will find that what was written in response to my posts was often worded in such a way as to be hurtful - that use of "emotive words" thing. I tried very hard to be diplomatic in replying, hoping for a genuine debate, but obviously from your point of view, failing completely.

Indeed not, and hopefully, lets not get carried away and make this into something that obscures what I believe were legitimate comments about characterization.

c.

I read fanfic, but I don't find time to post very often. I wanted to respond in this thread, though, to say that I agree with Carol on many of the points in her feedback.

That expresses my feelings as well. BL is certainly well written, but IMHO, Clark behaving this coldly towards Lois doesn't feel right. I can see him being sarcastic, or sulking, but I don't see him being cold. He tells Lois that he "chose" her, but it seems to me that he didn't really have a choice, since Gillian died.

Again, I have to agree. Clark being only half in love with Lois seems to be a contradiction to the man who "loved you [Lois] from the beginning" and the idea of L&C as soulmates. I'm not that bothered by the fact that Clark was with someone else when he thought that Lois was going to marry Lex, but if he truly did "choose" to return to Lois, it seems that it should be because he can and does love her completely.

I'm a little bothered, though, by Lois's apparent meekness about expressing her feelings. I'm sure she'd try to avoid saying things that were hurtful to Clark, but I think her responses would be similar to those in "Contact"--she'd let Clark know that unless he was able to commit fully, there couldn't be a relationship between them because anything else would be too painful for her.

I'm glad that you chose to post in both places, Carol I don't have an nfic password, so I wouldn't have seen your comments otherwise.

Snarla2