Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Lois & Clark Fanfic Comments: Butterfly Legacy, pt 14

Okay, now things get really interesting. <eg>

I'm not a big fan of Gillian but it sounds like she's been very good for Clark. But is he outgrowing her without even realizing it? He needed a place to hide and heal -- but once he's healed...

And you were evil to tease him that way with the static on the phone call to Perry

So now our boy finds that he's got a few more -- and tougher -- choices than he thought. Should be fascinating

PJ

I just read part 13, actually, not 14. Lynn, your writing is wonderful, as always, but this... I've been reading each section with my teeth gritted a little more, getting more and jealous on Lois' behalf -- and this is too much for me.

I suppose I ought to go and vote in that poll, after all. I can't bear to read a story like this.

As an aside, I'm not the arbiter of the envelope (as far as I'm concerned, it hit the floor years ago), but surely this is a bit much for the pg folder?

I look forward to your next story, Lynn, where the writing will be just as good and the subject matter will be something I can enjoy.

Hazel

Actually, I did have the EIC of the archive go over the Nfic version and tell me what needed to be removed to be acceptable for PG13. She has approved this version. To be honest with you, the nfic version has very little more than what you read in Chapter 13, and what I had to cut out to make it PG13 was hard for me because it wasn't graphic description but more bits of implication. I intentionally held this love scene to a very vague level, more emotionally driven than physical. If there are specific lines or words that you find over-the-edge, please do let me know and I'll take another look.

Lynn

If it is, then it's my fault, not Lynn's. She was quite diligent in passing this segment past me and asking for my advice on what was and wasn't permitted for pg13. I haven't read the segment as posted here, but I have no reason to suspect Lynn left anything in that I'd suggested be removed, so I'll assume it's the same version I 'passed as pg13', so to speak.

If so, I would accept this version quite happily for the Archive. Unless I'm given a lot of persuasion to decide otherwise.

Can I request that if this turns into a where does the line lie and where it should lie debate, that a new thread is started? I'd regret dragging Lynn's comments folder off topic.

And, just as a matter of clarification: I think you are using 'pg' in a general sense of defining the difference between the nfic and non-nfic folders here, Hazel, rather than pg as a specific rating. But, just in case and to avoid confusion, this folder is of course, not pg but pg13. And there is a distinct difference between the two.

LabRat

Now it's getting interesting!!! Poor Clark has some tough decisions to make. I really don't envy him.

I still think your story is great and I'm even happier now that Lois is back in the picture.

Can't wait to see what Clark's gonna do next,

Julia

Okay guys...I'm new at this. Had some help. Ihate that Clark lost his virginity to Gillian. That was meant for Lois, even though she doesn't desrve him!! Maybe this is all a dream and Clark really didn't sleep with Gillian? Please fix the toys back!! Great story. Can't wait for more!!

Sorry..I was trying to post a picture of that heart throb you know who...Dean!!

Hi Sheila, welcome to the party

I know what you mean about wanting Clark to save himself for Lois (even though she doesn't deserve him ) -- I've always liked that interpretation myself. But I remember when I first fell in with the wrong crowd, err, I mean, joined L&C fandom, back between S2 and S3, there was a *huge* debate over whether or not Clark was a virgin. And there were good arguments on both sides.

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I wonder why no one complains that Lois has slept with a few guys before now. Maybe that's the key, it was "before now" and off-screen. And it was canon from the pilot, so I guess anyone who didn't like it has long since moved on <g> But it seems easier for us to deal with that than with the idea that Clark might make love with someone other than Lois. Or maybe that's just me

Clark is not perfect -- that's the charm of this version of Superman, that he's got faults and flaws and trouble with relationships. He's a real person. And real people can care very much for different people at different times. And keep in mind, he thinks Lois is married, so it's not like he's had any reason to hold out hope in that direction.

PJ
wondering if KathyB needs any help with that TDASC gig...

My husband thinks that we all have issues and need a real hobby. So I suggested that maybe he could join Dean-anon!!

lol, tell him to get used to it! Maybe it would help to point out that this is a really cheap form of entertainment since, aside from ISPs, most of it is free Can't beat that with a stick!

PJ

From what I remember, the only verifiable guy that Lois slept with is Claude. She told Clark in the pilot that she'd slept with Claude but are folks just assuming she slept with other men? I always felt like she didn't sleep with the guy from college (mentioned in The Rival) because she was trying NOT to be like Linda King.

Maybe someone is confusing Clark Kent with Dean Cain?

I could have sworn that it was canon that Lois slept with Paul -- but maybe that's just a really popular idea in fandom, for some reason. Anyone familiar with the Rival, with a quote from the ep? I'm curious now.

As for confusing Clark with Dean... excuse me while I spend a few minutes rolling around on the floor, laughing Any chance that I'd be confused went out the window six or eight years ago. The two of them look kinda alike, but that's about it, as far as I can tell.

PJ
a Clark fan, not a Dean fan

I don't have the script of the Rival, but I just looked through VD and found this:

Lois: I wish I'd... waited, too.

Clark: (takes her in his arms) Shhhh, shhhhhh, don't.

Lois: Well, I do. Especially since they were all practically federal disasters.

Clark: Then look at it at that way. I'll be your first... non-federal disaster. And you'll be my first...

Lois really says *they* here, so she has more experience then Claude. And I think she mentioned in the Rival she slept with Paul.

Saskia

First of all, my apologies to Lynn for hijacking her thread like this. Yes, many of the comments *have* been on topic, sort of; but they addressed the general idea more than Lynn's specific story.

Labrat, yes, I meant the pg folders vs the nfic ones, not PG vs PG-13. And I appreciate Lynn's courtesy in vetting her story with the Authorities (tm) before posting. I'm not it.

Sheila El and Pam have brought up some interesting points. Are we applying some kind of double standard here, in accepting Lois having previous experience but objecting to Clark giving himself to someone other than Lois? If so, it's amusing in a kinda weird way, because I do believe that the modern secular world would be much more likely to think of things the other way round. I personally think it comes down to canon, as we know it now (that is, not what was speculated way back when, before VD dropped the bombshell that hit Lois harder than CK=S :rolleyes: or SM blew all "sinking to the floor during BGDF" theories out of the water). We accept that Lois has had previous partners/experience before canon tells us so; Claude at the very least, and perhaps Paul. (Again as an aside, Zoom debunked Claude in a Silly Revelation. ) Clark, on the other hand, waited. And moral opinions aside -- not for me, but for others -- I admire the ethics point, in that Clark would not go all the way with a woman unless that woman knew who he was first.

Now, Gillian doesn't qualify for that. She *does* know Superman, although, ironically enough, not Clark. So I suppose that ethics point doesn't qualify in BL. But to me, it's one thing to allow Clark feelings for another woman, especially at a time when Lois has been incredibly cruel to him -- but quite another to see him give himself to Gillian. Like Sheila El, I strongly believe that belongs to Lois.

Lynn and I have discussed this privately, and we'll probably never see the other's POV by now. I will say again that Lynn is a wonderful writer, and I wish her the best in the upcoming Kerths. But Butterfly Legacy is not a story I personally care to continue -- because as far as I'm concerned, I want to read about Lois and Clark.

Hazel

Hazel - I very much respect your decision to stop reading this story as it is not to your tastes. I also appreciate your graciousness in simply not reading rather than engaging in character assassinations as others have done on the other thread. To be quite honest, I don't understand why anyone would continue to read a story that upsets them, choosing instead to loudly shout-down the writer's choices rather than close the file and walk away. Thanks for coming this far. I do so much appreciate your feedback.

I would like to say one thing in general about this situation. The issues of both doubled standards and do they apply and also the canon of Superman aside, my observation to all of the nay-sayers regarding Clark with anyone other than Lois is this: It seems a rather cold-hearted stance to take to banish Clark to a loveless, celibate existence in a situation where he has no chance or hope of ever being with Lois as he truly desires to be. If Lois died or married another man (and I can suppose this as all fanfic is based on "ifs"), it seems that we are to believe many find it not only acceptable but expected that Clark should remain alone and lonely for the balance of his possibly infinite life. I feel very sorry for him if that had ever been the case. For a man who gives so much of himself to the world, it seems pretty uncharitable that so many would deny him a chance to find love and happiness in return simply because Lois has for whatever reason left the picture.

As for the canon issue that I ignored above, I will not claim to be an expert, but my understanding is that canon can only be taken from the comics, and even there we have several interpratations of which age is the real source. The show itself deviated from canon on several occasions, and I'm sure that it could be argued quite easily that fanfic by definition will stray from canon from time to time. If we all had to follow strict Superman canon, I would guess that a good 2/3 of the stories archived in this fandom would be eradicated immediately.

The double standard thing? It baffles me. I can't even speak to it because I don't understand why it is acceptable for Lois to have had relations with other men yet Clark is vilified if being portrayed as to having done so. Like I said above, I feel sorry for the man.

But I do thank those of you who are sticking with this for indulging my wish to explore such a premise. I know it is a hard concept to swallow - Clark without Lois. Honestly, this entire story came to me after I read a post on some thread - and for the life of me I can't remember where or who posted it. But this post asked the question what might happen/had it ever happened if Clark fell in love with someone who wasn't Lois and wasn't Lana. I may be mis-quoting the post, but that's the part that just stuck in my brain and wouldn't let go until this story came out. I know I risked a lot by venturing into this territory, so I should be ready to accept some controversy. I do enjoy debate, and a lot of the opinions expressed have been very enlightening. Both in how we view our "superhero" and what we're willing to accept in the name of fictional entertainment.


Thanks,
Lynn

From The Rival script:

LOIS
Anyway, there was this Editor I was trying to impress, a guy named Paul Bender. He was a Senior, and I had a very big crush on him. My first. So when I found out some of the school's football players weren't taking their own exams, I thought, this is it. This is the story that's going to get Paul to really notice me.

CLARK
Did it?

LOIS
No. Somehow Linda stole my story and wrote it under her name. Of course, he fell for her and she continued to impress him, in ways I won't go into. Needless to say, that was the end of our friendship. So now you know everything. Happy?

CLARK
So, she stole a story and she stole a guy and now she's trying to do it again, huh?

LOIS
Don't flatter yourself.


The later…

LINDA
You think I stole Paul Bender from you. But I didn't. You weren't even dating him.

LOIS
But I really cared for him, and you knew it.

LINDA
He came on to me.

LOIS
And you had no will power, huh?

LINDA
None. I would have done anything for Paul.

LOIS
And I guess you had no will power when you stole my story?

LINDA
Okay. I'm weak. It doesn't mean I wasn't a good friend. It just means I wasn't as strong as you are.


So there you have it, FoLCs, Lois wasn't even dating him, much less sleeping with him.

As for "they" in Virtually Destroyed, it could easily be explained away. They could refer to the times she slept with Claude. They could be referring to her relationships in general -- Lex being a disaster that would qualify for Super Funds (no pun intended).

I've never seen Lois as one who took sex lightly. She didn't sleep with Paul. She slept with Claude right after starting at the Planet and was hurt as a result. My feeling has always been that there was no one else until Clark. But opinions may vary.

Lynn, RL has been unbearably busy lately, so I've mostly been reading and running. And as you know, this is a very difficult story for me to read - in fact, in the hands of a lesser author, I probably would have abandoned it long ago.

I just wanted to touch on this:
Well, I'm certainly no expert either , but I assume that most of the time when people refer to deviating from "canon", they are referring to the canon as established on the show, as opposed to the comics. Now of course there are times when the show is inconsistent with itself - Lois's apartment number, for example. And certainly many of the stories written in this fandom are "what-ifs": resituating L&C's first kiss, how they got together, the CK=S revelation, the countless TOGoM rewrites...if we demanded no deviation from canon - even from show canon - then as you said, there would be a lot fewer stories in the Archive.

So I suppose that technically changing the circumstances of the CK=S revelation for Lois and having Clark lose his virginity to someone other than Lois are both "what-ifs" and deviations from canon. I guess it's just that for many of us readers
1. we're accustomed to variations on the first theme. It's interesting and intriguing to see what new twists an author will come up with for Lois to discover Clark's alter-ego *this* time...
2. more importantly, we're emotionally attached to the idea that Clark had saved himself for that one special woman whom he knew he would share everything with. The truth about his powers, everything about him. And for us, that woman is Lois, and this particular deviation is maybe just a bit *too* big.

Well, I can't speak to the vilifying , although I am deeply saddened that he did sleep with Gillian. I can understand how it happened - it all makes sense and I'm not surprised that it happened. It was a very *human* thing to have happened. But I wish it hadn't. However - back on point here - people would find it acceptable for Lois because of the canon issue, again.

The question of Paul has always been a murky one. Marilyn dug out the script, but the script has one distinct difference from what aired, and I tend to believe that what AIRED is canon, since the written script versions were often changed dramatically...

LINDA
You think I stole Paul Bender from you. I didn't. You weren't even dating him.

LOIS
I was dating him! I was dating him!

Notice the change in Lois's line. It could be Lois just trying to make the relationship look like more than it is - or perhaps justifying that they were indeed dating because they *had* slept together and she desperately didn't want to think that it was just a one-nighter for him - but Linda didn't argue with her, and the rest of the scene carries on as scripted. So for me, at least, it's still murky.

But we do know that Lois had had at least one relationship in her life that had gone "all the way". Some authors have chosen to give her a couple more. Like Marilyn, I'm inclined to believe that there hadn't been anyone since Claude. And I think if an author were to write a story with Lois involved in a loving relationship with another man (not Lex ) after meeting Clark, he/she might get a few negative comments there too.

Well...I read lots of stories that upset me at some point or other. CC gave me heart failure a couple of times in And Back Again, as did Yvonne in Addicted. Certainly any angst-ridden story will do that to you.

But I know that's not what you're referring to. But as I mentioned right at the beginning, it's partly a testament to the powerful writer that you are, Lynn, that has kept me reading, even though I suspected right from Part 1 what was going to happen here.

And partly because I'm holding out the hope for a happy ending. I can't picture "Sam" hiding out in Colombia for the rest of his life to stay with Gillian, so unless he convinces her to leave and go back to Metropolis with him, I'm hoping that he and Lois will find their way back to each other. And the seeds have been sown...

Kathy

Yeah... think Dan Scardino. And likewise Mayson Drake -- Clark involved, not Lois. That would be a MAJOR deviation from canon. Not going there!