Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Lois & Clark Fanfic FDK: Still loving you 2/2 (aka happy ending or ever after?)

Anna!

Thanks for the rather happy ending considering part 1 and most of Lois' behavior in part 2. Nice "tour de force"

PS: and have a nice WE

You can't stop here. This story demands continuance (*I* demand continuance....sorry, I'll be nice!)

We do need the story from Jon's POV, how he's coping with his parents getting back together, even.

and Lois needs a little OCD medication (I hear Zoloft-sp?- works well for that). She needs to let her husband and her son sit on the ceiling!!

Okay. So...

I'm sorry - this really struck a nerve, which I have to unload.

You write well... but Lois - horrified me.

1: She spanked in ANGER, with all her might

2: Was verbally abusive to her son (Yelling at him to leave her alone, and then calling him stupid like that).

He's in kindergarten, maybe 6? Or 5? That kind of thing cuts to the core with children... heck, even adult children.

I guess because i'm the mother of two kids, one about that age, it really bothered me.

I don't personally believe in spanking, but I don't condemn it outright either. I do however believe strongly that you calm yourself down before doing it (spanking as a punishment, not as a venting of anger), and that of course you curb your strength.

I also don't believe in ever calling a kid stupid. If I ever did that, (And I DO Yell, i'm not supermom - I do make mistakes), I would see my doctor about rage management.

Clark should have intervened. Superman, save that boy.

Sorry to rain on this like this... but it hurt to read... and maybe it's because you rendered her so well, which is a testament to your writing!

I'd have to agree with L, Anna.

And certainly not to offend you, as your writing is so very, very effective. And your premise really intriguing. I found it refreshing, actually, that Lois didn't become the serene mother when Jon was born. Not all moms take to motherhood like ducks to water. That's realistic, it can be a struggle.

And the idea that she and Clark married too soon, which if they had, would certainly point them towards disaster. Very well done.

However, I find Lois borders on abusive here. And you're hearing from another mom of a child that same age. I was bothered by her hardness, her words, her actions. And bothered, too, by Clark's leaving and letting it happen.

You have a really great story in this, Anna. And a talent for emotions. So, I hope this won't put you off or discourage you in anyway. But I'd love it if you would look at Lois a bit more closely. She's awfully hard to forgive.

CC

I agree. You did such a great job writing her as a nasty, hateful, bitter fiend so well, it's hard to understand why Clark would still love her. The happily ever after seemed a little forced, like she felt bad and then everything was magically okay. It was a great story, but

Thank you for sharing your muse.

I was originally going to call this a Greek Tragedy, in jest of course. But in fact it is.

Lois was really quite realistic, from my POV.

That was my childhood growing up, sans the divorce issue. I got it from both sides. Dad was the physically abusive parent and Mom was the verbal abuser. I thank God that I married a woman that came from a loving and nurturing background that has been and still is willing to stand up to the demons of my past and mold my responses to our children before I get out of hand. I am still not the perfect parent, but I am not what I was raised with.

Reading this story has brought back things I'd rather not remember and truthfully, I ended up skimming past some parts.

I found Clark's actions or the lack there of to be totally deplorable and very un-Clark-like. Lois needs to be taken to task for her words to her son. In my heart of hearts, I have wanted to tell my children how stupid they have acted at times, but I have placed a guard over my tongue and instead try to calmly discuss with them the foolishness of their actions.

Spanking has it's place, but never in anger.

All that said, Anna, you have written a powerful story that needs to be finished. Anger and hurt like what I have read should not be and cannot be that easily resolved.

I am not anger or mad or trying to discourage you. Some of the things you have written in the past have had me but this time I think you have successfully evoked another emotion in all of us.

James

Hi,

Great story. Hey! You can't leave the story there.

Want more!!!!

I know I'm responding relatively early, but I'd like to encourage some dialogue here.

My point here was (among other things) showing an out-of-control Lois, a woman who had had too much to handle and couldn't find the right way to do it.

Ethnica said the ending seemed a little forced, and I have to admit I agree with that. I think this happened because of a certain weakness I have when it comes to introspection. I am certainly going to have to work more on this part.

And now, regarding the most 'painful' matter:

Maybe it's the way I grew (still grow) up... I haven't suffered a lot of spanking (at least, not since I can remember), nor verbal abuse. But I have to say that my little brother gets quite a lot of what you name verbal abuse from my mother. Maybe because he's her third child and she's tired; maybe because he's much more disobedient and spoiled than me and my other brother; I don't know. What I'm trying to say is a) that the scene I tried to describe was supposed to be something that didn't happen frequently, but only when Jon was doing something really nasty, which made her lose her temper completely and b) that, to me, it didn't seem like something THAT bad. I probably have been through it (although I can't remember a particular case, and even the fact that I don't proves that it hasn't affected me that badly). Please note that the ages 4-6 I spent only with my mother and my one-year-younger brother for the largest part of the year; my father was working away from Athens.

The above paragraph meant to explain my reasoning for writing this scene the way I did; I don't know if I've managed to do that effectively. But I think you're getting an idea.

The ways parents treat their kids around the world certainly vary; maybe this is the case here, too. But I have to say that I am very interested in your POV and I would like to know, having read my thinking regarding this matter, what your suggestions are on how to make this scene look less violent, if you think it would be better this way.

Thank you for your kinds word on my writing (although I'm sure that this reply proves that my way of using the English language could use a lot of improvement...)

See ya,
AnnaBtG.

I found it hard to read, but enjoyable! Part 2 a bit more difficult.

I found this Lois very frightening. I couldn't believe what she did. I do not think the little boy was being too weird. He was just acting out b/c of the horrible circumstances, as we all know happens in some children. They act out, bottle up, act perfect, etc.

I think Clark would have intervened. Lois was being abusive. To me it is in his nature to stop (or try) bad circumstances. It's sad to see that this Clark felt he shouldn't or couldn't get involved. Was there a feeling of defeat? Hopelessness, rage or conflict , I guess that is the word I am looking for, when he was at the door?

Hopefully the little boy will get emotionally... fixed, Lois as well, or he may have problems later on...hmmm. Interesting a bad boy Superboy. I know not everyone turns bad- I didn't. Just angry?

I wish the story didn't have to rush so much. I craved more of a descriptive story. I wish it didn't move so fast.

You are a great writer. You stirred emotion and comments which I think are some of the great things that can come from writing.

I do agree that I would like to see what happens.

I do enjoy a story that russels up emotion in me!

Why do you feel that you have to make it less violent? I'm just curious. I'm sorry, but I do not know your age. I guess too young for nfic? I don't know. I don't mind either way. I don't know if I said that right...oh well. Maybe more descrption, introspection and such could make it less focused on the violence, without taking it out. It is still horrible and still in your face but...sorry I'm very sleepy and can't think of a way to say it at the moment. I won't be able to comment for a few days I think so I want to write something now.

Yes more introspection would be great. I would find it interesting what would go through Lois' mind. I have fears that I married too early. (couple months after my 25th ...I guess not?) I have similar worries like what Lois voiced, but I hope would not come out that way. I won't let it.

I had to put up w/ most unfortunate events from my step parent. I can feel what the little guy had to go through. Why do they yell. Why can't I have a normal family. WHy am I so different, and so on... Though I was older.

It would have been neat to see something from the kid's point of view. I don't know why, but sometimes I thought of him hinding in a closet peaking though a crack watching his parents yell.

From Roo - a girl who dares not touch pen to paper, or finger to key, for fear that an atrocity will be created. Oh yes, I can picture it now. People screaming "oh my goodness the grammer th th the...!" <ack> "Help" <gasping for air>. Oh the humanity... Monitors being turned off from sea to glorious sea so reader's eyes do not have to bear furthur witness to such failure.

See all the errors?

I'm sorry I wrote so much! I did enjoy it!!!!!!

Keep Rockin' Girl.

Anna, I wouldn't say that it's your use of English, I think you do that really well. I would only agree with you that your introspection could use some work.

Everyone has their weak points (mine is writing the 'boring' stuff in between the emotional scenes thus leaving gaping holes in my stories ). I've found in this fandom, fanfic writers can take the characters anywhere they want to go as long as it's justified. For example (and someone else can jump in and with the title and author I think it's 'What Makes a Man' by SQD) I read a story a while back in which something awful happens that makes Clark feel that it would be best to stay away from Lois AND his child. He cuts off all contact and makes it near impossible for her to find him, hiding out in a cabin in the woods. I believe he even has thoughts of suicide. Now, normally, we'd scoff at these completely UN-Clark like acttions, but the author takes us on a journey (usually through the character's mind) that makes it believable. (Though I will tell you, you can't justify a crying Superman to a non-FoLC...my writing class just didn't get it ...comic book fan...what does he know?)

To be honest, when I finished this I thought: '15 pages only?' The lack of introspection really concerned me, and I see you both agree that the story could use some (a lot?) more introspection. I'll try to work more on the story, using all of your comments as my guide. I hope I'll be able to make this story more believable. Once I'm finished, there's probably gonna be a repost.

And, Roo, I'm 16.

More comments/suggestions/criticism are always welcome! Thank you very much for taking the time!

AnnaBtG.

Okay, finally got up the courage to read this... and honestly, I'm more upset now than at the end of part 1 I'm with L & CC about being horrified. My kids are 5 & 7, and God knows I lose my temper with them sometimes... but Lois was way over the line here. And Clark heard that and didn't go in??

If I were Martha Kent, I'd look into suing for custody to get Jon away from *both* of them. If only for the shock value.

I'm glad Lois finally seemed to realize she was wrong (at least somewhat; I think she's got a lot more to recognize), but this "family" still has a very *very* long way to go before they can be healed. Just saying "I love you" once will not make up for years of hurt.

This is not to criticize your writing skills, btw; you wrote very effectively, which is why I got so drawn into it. My stomach is in knots, in fact, and my hands are trembling, and it's gonna be a while before I calm down Whether that's the effect you wanted or not...

Sara, an author can justify L&C doing some seemingly out-of-character things, yes. But to my mind at least, there's a limit beyond which I just can't suspend disbelief. And there are actions that characters can make that will be darned near unforgivable to me. Both Lois & Clark crossed that line in this story. They're just lucky I didn't call Child Protective Services on them!

PJ
who's gonna go regain a sense of perspective now

Pam... funny how us moms kinda saw it like this.

How one might perceive disciplining kids often changes when you become a parent.

There are ways of disciplining, of offering forth negative consequences to undesired behavior patterns which dnn't involve losing personal control.

When i'm driven past control (and boy, nobody can do that to you like your kids), I distance myself if possible - I go away - to a different room... take a personal timeout. Only possible if my hubby is there ... if not, I use every possible anger-reduction tool in my toolbox, INCLUDING sun salutations.

I actually don't have a problem with going out of canon character... as long as the way the characters behave makes sense in the context of their new characterization/story.

This is why I can never have Lord Kal in LST turn good.

I just think that Lois is a woman with serious anger management problems and tendencies towards child abuse. Clark is an irresponsible husband and father. I agree with you in that Martha should sue for custody! LOL!

16?

I hope I was clear that I didn't find Lois' verbal (and physical) abuse or Clark's chicken-heartedness as or jolting as I did the 'just kiss and make up' resolution. That was the only part that seemed unbelievable. Other than that, I thought it was brilliant. Keep up the good work - you may have found your future occupation.

Anna

I’ve just read both parts of this story. This is a very difficult premise. You did a great job portraying everyone’s emotions. The story is extremely well-written.

I am completely opposed to abuse of any description (physical, emotional or verbal). This includes spanking children. No one has the right to abuse anyone no matter what they have done. I realize that you are trying to depict what might have happened if Lois and Clark married earlier, but I just can’t see Lois or Clark behaving in this manner. Clark’s behaviour is just criminal! Surely he would intervene if Lois was having difficulty handling Jon. Jon would be emotionally scarred for life.

Tricia

Thank you, Pam, L, ethnica and Tricia for your replies.

I just realized I hadn't answered this:

Because it wasn't my intention to draw this kind of reaction:

Re-reading the comments from the people who didn't approve of Lois's attitude, there's something I'd like to ask you (I'm not sure I can phrase it, but I'll give it a shot anyway):

I believe that spanking could be used as a way of 'punishing' disobedient children, and I know there are people who share my opinion (including my parents). OTOH, I don't have children; you could even say that I am a child. Maybe as a parent I'll change my mind.
My point is that, the way I see it, Lois could be one of the people who think the occasional spanking can't be that bad. So, my question is:
Are you against spanking in general? Are you against 'too much' spanking, as you felt was the case in this story? Or do you just feel that Lois would be against spanking?

IMO, keeping a character in character sometimes is subjective. As Sara said, as long as it's well justified, I'm okay with it. I know I haven't justified this all too well, but the reactions from different people, including me, vary, which has confused me a little. My goal was not to show that Lois was some inconsiderate b****, but just a woman who thought this way she'd be able to keep her child under control. Given how English is not my native language, I don't know if the way I described the situation turned out saying what I wanted to say; but some of your comments suggest that it did, where others suggest that it didn't, so I am kinda torn.

This, of course, is not to say I do not appreciate the comments of the people who don't agree with me. Quite the opposite, I am very happy to see you all are willing to help me with this and I just have no words to express my gratitude towards you. I just hope I didn't cross the line between 'defending my opinion' and 'being a know-it-all'... I sometimes do that, and I hope this is not the case here. I really do want to encourage this sharing of opinions, in order to understand better what's missing from this story and how I can make it better. I am already taking advice on how to write introspection and will begin editing the story as soon as Muse drops by But I really feel like I need your help here.

BTW, sorry if I'm being too insistent

More replies are always very welcome.
See ya,
AnnaBtG.

Anna-

While I don't personally agree with spanking (though I don't have any children yet ), I know that spanking is considered a valid 'punishment' or perhaps disciplinary action. In your story, I don't think the fact that Lois used spanking was the problem. As L said,

I think it is the force of the spanking. And that problem could simply be fixed with wording. I think L also mentioned Jon's age. I agree with her that the severity of Lois' abuse is the cause of everyone's concern because it seems terribly out of character for Lois. I think in order to try and 'justify' this, Lois would have had to have gone through much more than what you've set up. Instead, I'd suggest a lighter spanking (which Clark wouldn't have a reason to run away from) and much less yelling.

Pam, I certainly agree with you on this. I think I just try to keep such things out of my mind and wasn't thinking beyond spanking and yelling.

Anna, if you're looking for a beta reader, feel free to email me skfolc@hotmail.com and I'll see if I can't help to make this the awesome story that it can be.

Sara

Wow, 16. That's cool. 16 and 17 where fun years for me...well not totally but, ack. Better than the ones before! LOL

Totally.

Read it again. Still enjoyed it. Made me squerm (sp?).

wow!

This has more... how thing evolve, they are not going to be happy just now, no?

Jose

Anna, I've been known to overreact to things sometimes... this was one of my hot buttons, I guess.

For the record, I *do* believe in spanking. When I get serious with my kids (not all the time), I'll start counting to five. If they haven't done or stopped doing whatever by the time I get there, they will get a swat on the backside (one spank only). I rarely get past "3"

When my son was having trouble behaving in class, he knew that a day with a bad report from the teacher would cause him to lose his TV and computer priviledges for the day. If there were more than two days of bad reports, that would earn him a spanking from Daddy. We rarely got that far, though it did happen a few times.

My philosophy of spanking, I guess, is that it should be the least amount possible, and that it be for something the kids have *chosen* to do wrong. They know that X will cause Y, so if they choose to do X anyway, they're gonna get Y. Spanking a child for something you've never told them not to do is just cruel. IMO.

All of this, btw, is for kids four and over, because they have to understand what's going on. Disciplining my son was a huge challenge for years, because he's got autism, and he didn't understand the concept of cause & effect. A spanking, to him, would have come out of nowhere for no reason. The only thing that would teach him is that he can't trust the universe not to randomly hurt him. Once he could connect those dots, things got easier. (That may be one of the reasons I reacted as strongly as I did, come to think of it -- when he was younger and misbehaving or acting out, we were sometimes advised to spank him more, which would have been *totally* inappropriate, so I have that "protect the little boy" thing going on.)

I never want to call my kids derogatory names (like calling them stupid or bad), and if one did slip out, I'd apologize for it. I do call them "silly" rather a lot, but that's mostly a good thing.

Am I perfect with this? Heck no. There have been times when I swatted when I shouldn't have. (See the above confession about overreacting ) And I have said things I wish I hadn't.

What Lois did was out of control. She totally lost her temper, was verbally abusive, and was hitting hard & long enough to (potentially) cause damage. There's spanking, and then there's beating up. This was much closer to the "beating up" end of the scale. And then that's on top of the fact that she hasn't had a loving relationship with Jon (not that we saw), and in my judgment, a lot of his bad behavior was her fault.

More than you wanted to know, I suspect, but you did ask, and I figure I owe you an answer For what it's worth, I didn't see your posts as being "know it all" in tone, merely an explanation of your POV. Hopefully, that's how this one will read, too.

PJ