Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Fanfic Related What are the all-time LnC classics?

I would, of course, nominate anything by Nan Smith .

I would also mention many of the other people mentioned above, there are far too many. We are truly blessed to have sooooo many good writers.

Then you have the moderately talented ones, like myself, who really enjoy what they have written but are just missing that something that makes their stories truly noteworthy.

I have written for other fandoms and received some nice reviews, but then the quality of fic in those fandoms are so low that it really doesn't take much to be considered good.

James

Completely off topic, but...

Jen, no! There is to be no lurking from you! (Although I think you have already started, given that you posted this on 11/20 and I haven't seen you around much lately.) Your posts are funny fresh air and we need them. Who else could comment so eloquently on roaches?

Ditto! Jen, don't feel you need to lurk! You make great contributions in discussion threads and you know we're insatiable where fanfic is concerned... I mean, if the muse ain't working, there's only so much you can do about it (ask me how I know :rolleyes: ) but that's no excuse for not talking to us anymore

PJ

Come on, Jen. No!!! Do you know how much I'll miss your avatar if you abandon us? I seriously mean it. Did you paint it yourself? Ah, and honestly, I'm so going to miss your posts too, your cyberspace voice, your point of view. Please stay and keep talking to us!!!

Ann

Or it could have something to do with the fact that timeously (which I had never heard before, and I have a pretty good vocabulary) is " chiefly Scottish and South African ." As are the occasional other usages in your fics (well, many are UKisms in general, rather than specific to Scotland). They don't bother me at all (I grew up reading the One End Street books and others of that ilk), but might be confusing to a non-native English speaker more familiar with American English.




And make me hunt you down and pester you on AIM until you start posting again? Wasn't once enough?

Well, in the context of the language used in my fanfic being substantially 'different' from all others in FoLCdom, the use of UKisms as the reason would strike me as very odd, to be honest, considering I'm not the only UK author writing for FoLCdom. I can't imagine that I use more UKisms than any other UK author.

In fact, I'd say less in many cases, because I've always used US betas to weed out as many UKisms as possible in my fic dealing with US shows and I know that not all UK authors feel the need to do that, preferring to use UK English as standard.

So if it was UKisms that was the point of difference I'd imagine that whoever it was who brought this one up (sorry can't remember who you were now! ) would have cited all UK authors as a group, rather than just my fic.

Interesting that MW considers timeously to be chiefly Scottish and South African. My own personal experience has been that it's almost entirely used as a legal term and I've never heard it used commonly outside of the office. I'd be curious to know if American law offices use it as a legal term, or whether it's a purely Scottish/South African legal term.

Interesting.

LabRat

LabRat, I don't find your stories at all inaccessible (though I freely admit I'd never heard the word 'timeously' and don't have the first clue what it means!) but I can almost always recognize when a writer is or isn't an American, and you were no exception. It's less to do with overt UKisms than subtle differences in syntax. It doesn't affect my enjoyment of the story one whit, but I can usually spot it.

As an American writing in the HP fandom, I quickly realized that many of the British writers were very offended by Americanisms and thought that if we couldn't make our characters sound Properly British, we ought not be allowed to bother with them. The problem is that most Americans just can't sound authentically British. Some really try. They make an effort to do away with obvious Americanisms, even to the extent of having someone Britpick their stories for them, and they learn all about the difference between pants and trousers and whatever else seems to apply. Others just insert the word 'bloody' here and there, more or less at random, and hope that does the trick. Still others do absolutely nothing, up to and including having Harry et al celebrate Thanksgiving (unbelievable how many times I've seen this in fic...) which makes the UK readers want to come after them with pitchforks. I kind of tried to be in the first group, but in the end, I pretty much decided that no matter what I did, British readers were going to know that I'm not - and if they didn't like it, they could just go read something else.

All that to say that while I can usually spot a UK writer, I've never yet encountered an L&C story where those slight differences have hindered my enjoyment of the story or jerked me out of the imaginative experience. In fact, in many cases, your stories included, those subtle differences in phrasing contribute something vital to the author's unique style, and I'd hate to see them lost for that reason

Caroline

Caroline said:

Which reminds me of one of the first serious papers I handed in to a full professor. It was returned to me with this scrawled at the bottom of the page halfway through: "Write like an American for God's sake!"

I was and remain completely confused. I THOUGHT I wrote like an American. Apparently not. I'm not even sure how to go about correcting this problem.

It doesn't mean anything more startling than 'early as possible'. It worked its way into my daily vocab after years of typing "Dear Sir, We'd be obliged if you could send us your payment timeously, otherwise we'll sue your butt off." Or words to that effect.

US -v UK authors: I don't think you can ever immerse yourself completely in US language/writing styles if you're a UK author and vice versa. I've always been in the first category you mention. I try to make it as US as possible, partly because I feel if I'm dealing with a US show and characters I owe it to them and partly because I enjoy the American language and always have done, so it's always been a joy to discover the differences between the two.

I can understand why UK readers would be irked by Harry Potter celebrating Thanksgiving, just as US readers would be irked by, oh say, Lois and Clark celebrating Guy Fawkes Night (unless, of course, there was a good plot reason for it that acknowledged it was something out of the ordinary for them to be doing) - probably justifiably in the extreme cases. But I think a reader at the other end of the spectrum, like those you mention, who won't read a story if its not 100% UK/US is missing out on a heck of a lot of good reading!

LabRat

Completely off the "classics" topic:

I can too, and it always makes me smile. I spent a few months in the UK once upon a time and reading stories by our Brits in residence always takes me back to fond memories. The tip off for me usually is words like "properly" and "quite". Not that Americans don't use them; it just seems that Brits use them in a different way. I noticed that most of our UK writers don't use what we think of as typically British words, like "bloody" or "loo", but I did read a story least week in which Lois offered Clark "tea and biscuits"!

By the by, I have embarrassed myself numerous times while in the UK by referring to my trousers as my pants, including one particularly memorable occasion involving an elderly gentleman at Kempton Park racecourse.

Caroline wrote:

That's a terrible attitude: horribly snobbish and very unfair.

I write in the Doctor Who fandom now, and again it's a British fandom with British (or British-sounding) characters, and so you're quite right that there are many American phrases, events, customs and so on which really don't work in the context. You mention Thanksgiving, which is one; I've seen reference to 'blocks' as a measurement of distance, someone making smores or a grilled cheese sandwich, high school prom or graduation or having to pay at a hospital.

Yes, these are fairly glaring to a British eye. Not difficult, though, to get a Britpick BR, or even hang out at some of the LJ communities where you can get Britpick questions answered (dw_britglish comes to mind for the DW fandom). But the little things - US spelling, the occasional word-use or syntax which is different and so on - never bother me, especially if the writer's good. Oh, I'd prefer not to see Rose, who is from London, talk about needing new pants. Dialogue should sound as in-character as possible, and that's something I tried to do while I was writing L&C - I didn't always succeed, but I know it's important.

I BR for three US DW authors, and I do help them with British English - these authors also want to use UK English spelling, which I don't see as necessary but they want it so I'm not going to argue Plenty of other US writers in the fandom use US spelling and some US vocabulary, but do try to avoid the obvious cultural differences - and I know I appreciate the effort they make. There's a difference between accommodation and assimilation, and I'd never want to suggest that the latter's necessary to write in a fandom based in a different country.


Wendy

Lisa:



LabRat:

Yes, this is how I felt about it I think it's lots of fun to learn the differences and never minded having them pointed out to me, especially if it was in an, "Oh, by the way..." way. I had someone write me once to tell me that there was no poison ivy in Ireland, where I'd set a portion of one story. I found that fascinating, not least because it was something I would have never in a hundred years thought to check! I don't remember now if I went back and changed it, but I will certainly never plant fictional poison ivy in Ireland again!

It was the long rants I sometimes encountered at LJ and in bulletin board posts that I found discouraging. They usually set a standard I knew I could never meet. And I think the problem was exacerbated by the books being published in an "American" version. I find that ridiculous, too, actually. Americans have been reading British literature for many years without needing a separate version all their own, and most of us are quite capable of grasping British idioms from context. I ordered the HP books from Canada so that my kids could read them the way they were written.

Wendy:

I used UK spelling when I wrote in the HP fandom, but I just used my spell checker to make any changes I might have missed on my own. Set it for UK English, and it pretty well does the job for you Though after the years of writing HP fic, I now catch myself using some British spellings inadvertently. I write "labour" more often than not, for some reason, and I can never remember whether grey or gray is the American spelling. They both look equally right to me.

Yes! Very well put

I have to say, though, that overall it's kind of relaxing to be writing in an American fandom again, where I don't have to second guess every line of dialogue. And since I'm a Southerner, writing for Perry is especially fun. Finally, a character who speaks my native language!

Caroline

Yes, the authors I work with also use spellcheckers to help them, but they're not infallible, and Word sometimes switches back on you when you're least expecting it. I caught memorize in something my friend was pasting to me this morning, and her Word hadn't flagged it for her.

Also, there are some circumstances where two spellings are acceptable, but you'd use the word differently depending on the circumstances. In UK English, for example, everyday and every day are two different words with distinct meanings, but I notice in US English the first spelling is used for both.


Wendy

Gray and grey are used interchangably (although I can't seem to remember the correct spelling of this word) in American English.

Don't know that therre is a correct spelling fo gray/grey, but I believe gray is more commonly used in the U.S. and grey is more common in the U.K.

Also, I think gray is used more when describing something's color, and grey is used to describe the clarity of something. Just my guess.

I've seen grey / gray used interchangeably in the US. I've never heard about gray as a color and grey to describe the clarity of something. Hmmm....

I may be completely off on that.

Interesting. I’m mostly just coming back to this thread, and I have to agree that most everything mentioned was from Kerth winners or nominees. Even the ones that aren’t on that list seem to be *mostly* (not all) from older authors / stories. There are some notable exceptions like Sue S.’ Faustian Bargain.

What I’m wondering is this (and I know it’s been said before): I wonder if newer authors are given a fair shake? It seems that most of the newer authors on this board are also getting feedback from the other newer folks. Of course that isn’t always true, but I wonder if some of the folks that are considered ‘icons’ ever take a look at some of the newer authors’ stories. I know they watch for new stories because I see them post when one of those other ‘icons’ post a story. By ‘icons’ I mean the great ‘older’
writers out there. The ones that have been around for many, many years. Yes, I know, I’ll probably be blasted for this, but I can’t help but wonder. (Yes, I’ve seen a couple of ‘icons’ post on newer stories, and I’m sure all of us authors have been extremely grateful.) I ask this because I see some fantastic stories that I don’t think are getting a fair shake. I know some of the newer folks don’t even know who the ‘icons’ are, but I’ve been a lurker for a long time, so I do. Do you know how much it would mean to the newer authors for one of you ‘icons’ to comment? Do you have any idea? (And you ‘icons’ know who you are.)

Let me give you just one example. Lara Moon just posted Reversal of Fortune I thought it was fantastic! And at the time of this posting no 'icons' had made any comments.

I’m sure I could come up with more, but this was the one that immediately came to mind.


And yes, Lady Mirth asked about classics, but I just wondered about newer stories seemingly not getting the recognition they deserve.

I don’t think it’s atypical at all.

All right, JoJo, this wasn’t my intention in saying what I said above, but I thought you said once that you read everything on this board. So have you read any of my stories? Yes, I know my monster fic does not include Lois and that turns many off. So I'll be brave and ask if you've read any of the others. Twisted ? What about Defeated ? I’ve been told that both are pretty good. (And not just by folks on this board.) Have you read anything by Woody? Bakasi? Olympe? Lara Moon? (Those are recent new authors that I remember off the top of my head.)

I agree. Nan Smith’s Home series is pretty good, too.

Probably not, but I did it anyway.
I just decided I'd go for it!!

Well, I’ve been lurking since 1998. But I didn’t start posting until July. So what does that make me. Newbie or oldie?

Yvonne, you are ‘icon’. (And thank you for your kind comments to me.)

Well, I’m sure you have plenty to write about. And I have seen you reading the newer stuff. Don’t lurk. It’s so much more fun to post.


I agree. (And what does timeously mean?) I’ve also gotten so I can pick out German and Portuguese and Spanish writers, but do I care? Not one whit. (As I’ve said before, my biggest hang-up is folks who won’t even try to do things like use capitalization.)

But why would British readers get upset over Americanisms? Why not just enjoy the story? But then, too, if the British folks don’t tell somebody it’s an Americanism then how would you ever know? Some of them can be totally foreign. Do you know how many Americans know what a spanner is? Well, when I first heard it, I imagined everything under the sun - including an athletic supporter (as in spanning the matter) - but a wrench? I would have never guessed.


Sounds to me like he was being a jackass. Who cares as long as the paper was good? Reminds me of the professor I had that got mad because I objected to him cutting open a live mouse. He made my life hell, and since it was a small college, he was the only professor available for that particular class.

My gadfries, are there really Americans out there that don’t know that Thanksgiving is strictly an American holiday? Evidently so. And Scots speak Scottish, and Austrians speak Austrian, and Brazilians speak Brazilian. Arggghhh…..

So I what exactly does pants mean in GB? Underwear?

I’d just laugh and think it was cute. I’m pretty sure I read one where they had pie and chips. (I still don’t know what the heck that is.)

Well, if Brits don’t eat these then they should!!! They are both wonderful.

Unfortunately, yes, we Americans have to do that. I for one (and I’m a nurse) think we should get with it and have socialized medicine.

Wendy, what does LJ mean? I figured out that DW is Dr. Who.

What’s the difference?

Well, okay, then. I've put my foot in my mouth for the day.

They are? Really? Even in academic American English there is no distinction? How about the Canadians? Do they distinguish? You know, this could explain quite a few of the supposed discrepancies in my writing. Maybe I should start double-checking things with the MBs! From now on, I'm blaming all grammar issues on the pervasive presence of British schoolteachers in the world.

Is this the time to mention how Teri Hatcher's California valley-girl accent occasionally slips out at random moments in the show despite the fact that most people think Metropolis is supposedly somewhere near the East Coast?

Oh, heaven help us if they had the program speaking like some of the folks in New England do. They'd had to have them putting R's where they don't belong. I'd rather hear the valley girl accent (really).

But what is the difference between every day and everyday? Really. What's the difference?

I never had one British school teacher. No, not one. (But I did have grandmother who was a long time school teacher and scolded folks for not spelling color as colour and for calling a rule a ruler.)

And remind me what an MB is.