Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Fanfic Related What are the all-time LnC classics?

Maybe I just came from lazy fandoms, but I made a remark (when I was an LnC newbie--oh, back in February) about how strange it was to me to see the feedback SEPARATE from the stories themselves.

See, in BOTH of the fandoms I'd been active in before, when someone posted a story, they set the thread to automatically alert them if there were replies (if they wanted), and everyone posted feedback in the same thread as the story (or chapter). It just seemed strange to post the feedback in a whole separate thread!

Then, I asked what that was all about over here, and the answer kinda made sense--although I can't remember the exact reasons given.

That said, coming from such so-called "lazy" fandoms, I kind of see moving the feedback into a whole different forum as a bit of overkill. Not to mention, because of said laziness, I for one am not inclined to read a story, then go into a whole different section of the boards just to post feedback, when now all I have to do is hit the back button on the browser, then either find the right FDK thread or start one of my own.

I have to admit though, that with the FDK threads separate (but still in the same forum), I've left a TON more feedback for stories in this fandom than in either of the other two COMBINED. And I was active in those for a longer amount of time by months, in one of them by YEARS!

Yes, I've seen boards where comments were posted right after the story part, too, and that doesn't really bother me. Keeps everything nice and neat in a way.

The board I'm thinking of (and like best, frankly) does it like this: Each author starts a story thread in the appropriate part of the forum AND, at the same time, starts their own feedback thread in the the comments section of the forum. So, one story thread, one feedback thread. Usually, the author will link to the feedback thread at the end of the story post - that way, no one has to go hunting for anything if they want to comment. The link is just right there and takes you straight to the comments, which is, IMO, even easier than using the back button and searching for the FDK thread here.

When they update the story, they go back to the original story thread and post under the first part. And again, they'll link to their feedback thread, which is still the same feedback thread they started the first time. It just grows and grows right along with the story. There's no real need for TOC's because the story stays in one piece and the comments stay in one piece, and when either are updated, they bump to the top so you can see they've been updated. It just seems a lot simpler to me.

However, I'm really not pushing for change. I know people are used to the old way and comfortable with the old way and probably take an 'if it ain't broke' approach to the whole thing. And I'm pretty used to it now, too, but it still strikes me as a little confusing, especially to the newcomers.

Caroline

You know if it seems a bit cluttered...

Maybe it's just me, but it just seems like a lot more people are writing and churning out one story after another, to boot. Even when these boards were really active a few years ago, I sort of remember being able to keep up with everything. Granted, I gave up most reading when I started grad school, but even now when I sit on my butt during holiday, I look around to see what's going on, and I actually *gasp* open the TOC forum just because there's so much activity.

JD

Yes, I love the family tree that you did. (And before you put it up, I’d done one of my own… Hehe)

I still read quite a bit, but I can’t read as much when writing. One thing that really slowed me down was doing four betas at once which I’ll never do again. I enjoy reading too much.

Me, too…


JoJo, your ‘tips’ were right on. Although that thing about taking a while to post… Sue about drove us all nuts making us wait. (Of course, I guess I have to agree with the idea of waiting.)


Yes, I’ve probably done this LabRat. I do think the author needs to be a part of their feedback thread and acknowledge their feedback.

I see it that way.

I don’t think I ever did find out how to get one of those.


Yes, Pam. I have always found you to be friendly.


Sue, they leave us all in slack jawed amazement. Has Ann provided a count recently? Wasn’t it up to something like 600 posts? You really are an absolutely awesome writer. (And anybody who hasn’t read Sue’s stuff ought to do so right away because she is one of the most amazing authors I’ve read anywhere .)


I’ve wondered about that, too, but I do like them being together like they are here. It might be nice if the fics were set off some other way than by blue arrows. I wouldn’t mind them being separate if it’s not like it is at fanfiction.net though.


Yes, I’m a member of both, too (as are many here). That whole thing actually added to me leaving lurkdom for awhile and going away completely. (That wasn’t the only reason.)

Yes, this irks me, too especially when it becomes a mantra. Just because you don’t particularly like something about a story doesn’t mean that story isn’t still good.

Everything you said was very well said indeed, Alcyone.

Well said, JoJo.


I’ve seen links to feedback done in the stories *here* and I like it. But it’s up to every author to do it. I’ve been known to do it, but I tend to be lax about it.

Interesting what you said about so many stories being churned out, Shadow. Sometime recently, I saw 4 or 5 fics posted here back to back.

This has been a very interesting thread. I just popped on today for the first time to see what everyone was talking about and have found the discussion interesting.

I know I'm not a newbe, but I don't think I'm an icon either. I'm just... well old (but then, that's the story of my life )

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've probably read less than a dozen stories this year and those are almost exclusively after they are posted on the archives.

As to why I'm not reading much anymore: I broke my tailbone about a year and a half ago and it's been getting progressively more painful for me to sit for any length of time unless I'm doped up on pain killers (which I am at the moment so don't expect me to say anything brilliant ). Anyway, as a result, when I do take the time to sit down, I have to decide what to do with that time.

And since something inside of me dies if I'm not writing... most of my limited time at the computer these days is spent writing... something (although even there, I've spent a lot less time writing as a result of my injury, too.)

As to my point... Well, I'm not sure I have one . What was the topic again? (btw, did I mention that I love my drugs )

Oh, right. I remember now what I wanted to say. It's not that I'm ignoring new writers. I'm just ignoring all writers. But please, keep writing. Because some day I'm hoping to actually be able to go back and read some of these great new stories (when the doctors find a way to make the pain go away).

ML

MLT, I don’t think you asked for sympathy, but I’m really sorry about your tribulations, chronic pain is truly hell on earth, and I hope you will be able to read some the outstanding work that has been produced here in recent time. Anyway I’m selfish enough that I rather see you writing if you can. I don’t have to stretch saying that you are one of the main reasons I’m in awe of the collected work of the L&C community. So I’ve difficulty imagining that “iconic” isn’t applicable.

I’m glad that I’m not the only person that thinks that the current fic layout board is a nuisance. (I was starting to believe there was something wrong with me.) Even finding my favourite authors can take minutes. Hunting down all the part of a new story that quite often is mislabelled is most often a pain. The TOC section isn’t helping much since it’s a week old and somehow doesn’t seem to contain what I was looking for. Or perhaps I just suck at information retrieval.
Some while ago I suggested that it should be rather simple to post feedback on the story thread, but was shot down thoroughly, I think the word tradition came up.

But hey what do I know? I’m crazy enough to believe that a non-password protected smut section would be a good idea. :p

Arawn, I've found that, when I'm looking for a particular fic that's not on the first screen of the fanfic section, I can use the Search link. I usually search in the TOC section for either the title of the fic, or the author's name, but I have been known to search the fanfic section itself, just in case there's a chapter that hasn't been added to the TOC yet.

Just caught up with this thread.

I think I'm a unique case over here - during the past year, I found my interest in all kinds of reading dwindling. I read very little fanfic (most of it in Harry Potter nowadays, and occasionally L&C vignettes) but I've also stopped reading books and even comics. (I think the homework overload might have contributed to it.)

Lately I don't even check the boards every day. I spend most of the day away from home since I started classes at the university, and when I'm home I'm usually too tired/sleepy to do stuff that requires a working brain (which is also why I write much less, too) - and enjoying a story does require a working brain. I usually just catch up with emails, LiveJournal and I chat with my friends - in other words, I just try to keep up with what's happening in my friends' lives.

I'm a relative newbie myself, and I had a lot of trouble attracting readers when I first started writing. Because of that, I understand the frustration of newbies who think they deserve better (I thought I did too! But then again, my stories stank, so I'm probably not one to talk ) and I try to encourage new writers as much as I can, by reading their stories, giving feedback and BRing, if I can. Unfortunately, I hardly have a chance to do that anymore I'm ashamed to say that I barely even know the names of the new fics posted! I recognize the new posters that have appeared on the boards, but that's about it And I had plans about reading tons of fanfic when I'd be done with high school, catching up with oldies, doing a good bit of Kerth reading... but none of this happened.

Anyways.

Interesting discussion here. I enjoyed reading it - in such discussions, I much prefer reading to writing, because I never feel I have much to contribute. Though I'd like to comment on this:

I agree that maybe an email or IM is a better approach, but I can't really say I see the problem with saying it in a FDK thread.

But what if we're talking about a long story? Do you expect the reader to keep reading until the end, spend maybe hours on the story in the off chance they might like it in the end? If I can predict I'm not going to like a story because it deals with a topic I don't care about, I'm not going to waste my time reading it. This isn't obligatory reading.

Exactly, Nancy. Which is why, as a reader, I feel obliged to let the writer know *why* I'm not going to read the story till the end. Otherwise, the writer will wonder why there's such a lack of FDK, or, in case it's a longer story, where have the previously regular reviewers gone. (It's happened to me, and I didn't like it.)

Of course the writer is not expected to change their story so as to make it fit the reader's tastes. But the comfort alcyone seems to find so improbable exists. At least, it exists if there *is* something nice you can say about it. For example, a comment like "I really love the way you write, but *this kind of fanfic* doesn't really interest me, so I'm not going to read any further" seems more like an apology than negative feedback. I'd go as far as to say that it's actually positive feedback; the writer can rest assured that their writing is good enough to even be appreciated by non-fans of the genre!

It's happened to me, to get comments telling me they loved my writing, but they didn't like something else about the story, and I appreciated them deeply. In fact, I had pretty much a whole FDK folder full of comments of that nature. So I'm not just assuming here, but speaking from personal experience.
(I have to admit - in my case, no one stopped reading, maybe because it was the last part of the story. But I had people tell me they found it really hard to finish reading.)

Then again, I wouldn't expect, say, Tank to start sending such FDK to all kidfic writers, or Ann to all deathfic writers. I'm talking about the case where you've started reading something but then you feel like you can't read further.

I hope I haven't offended anyone.

See ya,
AnnaBtG.

I would imagine that one reason we don't post FDK directly in the story thread is that would cause the story to be sent to the top with every response. Then we would all have to stop and try to remember whether we had read that story/chapter or not. That would make it even more confusing, for me anyway.

And I second using the search feature when looking for something. It is very helpful. But I do reccommend searching in the subject line only, or by member number. It takes a while if you search the entire message.

[Moderator hat on]

I've been observing some of the comments here and the language being used by one or two of us, and have a friendly request to make. Can I ask that we all remember these boards are designed and maintained by volunteers? Suggestions for improvement are always welcome, of course, but I'm sure those who gave of their free time to set up this site would appreciate it if we could tone down the unbridled criticism just a little.

Thanks, and sorry to insert an off-key note into this friendly and lively discussion.

[Moderator hat off]

Yvonne

Other reasons are that it is irksome for those with slower internet access. Others who save story segments to their pcs were also irritated by getting a mass of FDK with it. They wanted to be able to save just the story segment and nothing else. There were other reasons, but I can't recall what they were this far down the road. Their origins are lost in the midsts of Zoomway's boards, which is where the format was set up. We simply carried it over when we set these boards up because it never occurred to us to use anything else than the one we were used to.

In fact, Zoomway began by using the adding FDK to the story segment thread. Then there was a bit of discussion about how many people it annoyed and the format was switched to the current one, which suited the majority better.

I'm afraid that once a week is all that I'm prepared to do on updating the TOCs. I simply don't have the free time to update them every day or every hour, so that they are always immediately up to date. So if you want more regular updates than that, you're going to have to start begging the authors to take the time to set up/update their own TOCs whenever they post a story segment.

As far as I'm aware, there's no missing information in the TOC folder. But if you spot anything missing please do email me (or the author). Using the search function is good advice though. It can be very helpful.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'mislabelled' story parts, Arawn. I don't think I've experienced that. One thing that I do find hampers my updating TOCs is FDK threads which have commentary at the start in their headers and the story title second. I usually miss the one I'm looking for several times before I spot it because I don't recognise it and half the time I end up giving up in frustration and having to search for it. Putting the story title first and the commentary second would go a long way to cutting down the time I spend on updating the TOCs!

LabRat

Oooh, I hadn't thought about how that would affect the TOCs Labby. Sorry for any of those I contributed to starting I certainly don't want to cause you any extra work... so I'll keep that in mind the next time I start a FDK thread.

<DJ - who is definitely still a newbie because she keeps learning new things about how to post>

Thanks, DJ. I find the various headers deeply amusing, so don't think I don't appreciate them. . I only start cursing your name <g> when I've spent five minutes searching for a fdk thread I know is right under my dang nose and it's playing at being invisible. But I get over it. <g>

But there's no denying that swapping the title and commentary around on a header would help me out a fair bit. So any move towards that is much appreciated.

LabRat

I wanted to just chime in on this one point. I have not read all the posts in this tread but I feel that I should defend our decision regarding this.

The password protection is there for a reason. My name is associated with this domain, this web host, and this site. I live in the United States where there are laws that I must follow regardless of what country you as the member are from. Let's not forget to mention that there's also a term of service agreement (TOS) for the web host.

In reality there is no password protection on the forums we just allow certain members access to them. It just so happens that those members must be over 18.

I understand how it must be an inconvenience to the users to apply for access to those forums; however that is something that is never going to change no matter how much complaining there is over it.

Weigh that against a complaining parent who accuses me of allowing a minor to access "porn". Who will win this fight? Especially when I am able to provide proof that their innocent child lied to gain access.

I also know that most nfic authors would not post their fanfic if that protection was not in place.

Some rules of the site were agreed upon by the original moderators and admins as a group and may certainly be debatable. However, this is one rule that we have no choice about, it will forever stand, and will never be up for debate. I ask that you do not question it and accept is for what it is.

Thank you,

Not that mine would have been any great loss... but, yes, Annette, you are correct. I for one would not have posted in there if that were the case.

-- DJ

I think Arawn was referring to a previous conversation . We discussed the passwords-for-nfic question about a month ago.

Psst, Labrat... this is the perfect time to ask people to help you with the TOC's. ^_~ I want to help you... I was fighting with myself in the car this morning to volunteer, but as I run 2 websites, a live journal community, have a cross stitch I have to finish by february, and I also run a staff of about 100 people for another hobby I have... I don't think it is wise. LOL

On another note... I know some people were talking about the slow down of the IRC channel. Who owns it? X decided that the "Manager" hadn't logged in for a while and has decided that the ops level 400 and above should pick a new manager. So.... someone should look into that.

Also, taking a second to tell the staff of the site that they are awesome and thank them for giving us a place to play. You are a very organized bunch and the amount of time you put into everything is amazing.

Seconded!

LabRat, I know I am really new and therefore could be, so far as you know, a crazy loon, but if you need admin help, you've got a willing volunteer here. I can help with TOCs or whatever else, just let me know.

DSD,

Well thank you for the suggestion I keep it in mind, but I think it further illustrate that the presentation could be easier.

Mrs Mosley,

I hadn’t considered that. But still the fact that half of the threads would disappear should go a long way into making it more manageable.

Labrat,

And I hope you realize (and as I said the last time) that this isn’t a complaint about you not doing a good enough job. I certainly don’t expect someone to check the board every five minutes to make an update. But as I understand it, the purpose of the TOC is to make the jumble of threads in the fic section more manageable. Now imagine that some feature could make the fic section so easy to operate that the TOC wasn’t really necessary. Then you would have less job.

Sometimes, the authors don’t use the blue arrows, sometimes there is a tag that I just throws me off a feedback thread.

Annette,

Very well, if you don’t want to be associated with smut for personal reasons, or the general hassle I can understand that. But if you are referring to American obscenity laws this site would have nothing to fear, or so I’ve been told by American lawyers I know.

AFAIK I’m the only one who complained about it, and virtually everybody else thought it was a bad idea so my expectation weren’t that high, that was why I mentioned it in this context, as a joke at my own expense, the forum tends to shoot down my ideas. But I have no problem with that, people thinks differently.

And I didn’t consider it as much a complaint as a suggestion to make the board more accessible. To someone like me, that has a password it’s no hassle. I was just thinking about casual browsers that might me sucked into the fandom by easier access.

Fair enough, if it’s your board, it’s your rules. I didn’t see anything in FAQ that mentioned that this subject was taboo.

Yvonne,

If this was also directed at me it appears I come across as a whiner rather then the dynamic groundbreaker I imagine myself to be. I’m very sorry.
May I ask what is the difference between suggestions for improvement and unbridled criticism? (I’m not being flip, I genuinely seem to have a problem with it.)