Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Lois & Clark Comic books in a super world

So, my mind was wandering this morning, as it often does. It drifted back to a conversation that Shayne and I had about the tv show Who Wants To Be A Superhero (where people make up their own superhero, and Stan Lee picks one to make a comic book out of it), and what would happen if Clark was on the show. But then I thought, why would they have the show? If there's a real life comic book-type hero right there, what is the need for comic books?

There will always be certain types of comic books. There's the slot of the Disney and Archie type comics. The anime slot of comics. Ones that don't have a powered hero, or a tortured hero (think Spawn).

But one of the biggest comic book types, in our world, is the superhero. In the L&C world, what would be the need? They have a real-life hero flying around in Metropolis. They have the anti-hero in Gotham, assuming that Batman exists (I don't remember a Batman reference, just the Gotham reference). It's possibly that they would have had these types of comics prior to the entrance of Superman. If they did, how would Superman have changed the nature of these comics?

I'm curious to see what you all think.

Well, it seems I remember on the show that a comic was mentioned. Maybe it would be about the real-life adventures of our hero - you know as an inspiration to other people. The show definitely mentioned an action figure. So if there is an action figure and people on the show wore Superman shirts and Superman pajamas, etc. then it stands to reason he would have lots of fans, and that they would want to read everything they could about him. I mean think about our world where there are action figures for real-life people. (The only ones I can think of right now is the Donny and Marie dolls that used to be around. There also used to be fictional stories written about these real people.) And then, too, think about the new 911 report that has been released. It's been done in comic book style.

waitaminute! Stan Lee has a reality show called "who wants to be a superhero" ??????

What the hell?

I think the whole reality show thing has just gone completely overboard. (and this, mind you, coming from a girl who watches so many of them, she's lost count!)

You know, this was the first thing to pop into my head, too, when I read Karen's post. I have a distinct memory of a comic being mentioned. But the details escape me.

I'm even wondering if it was something in fanfic rather than the show. As Sara points out in another thread, the two do tend to blur after a while.

As Nancy says, there are all kinds of products being marketed on the show in the wake of Superman's arrival, as people try and cash in on the superhero in their midst. So I would reckon that a comic book about Superman - or, perhaps, if they want to avoid a lawsuit <g>, about some other superhero they've made up - would be a logical part of that. So it wouldn't strike me as an incongruity at all that there's a comic book - or two or three - on sale in Metropolis and elsewhere.

An official report into a tragedy has been issued as a comic book? On the face of it that sounds so positively bizarre that the mind boggles.

Karen, I'm going to move this into the LNC folder, as it seems to me it has a distinct connection to events in the show. Hopefully, too, it will generate more discussion in there. Interesting question.

LabRat

Thanks, Lab. I wasn't sure if it would fit better in Off Topic or L&C.

I remembered the merchandising in the show, but that only came about after that agent started bugging Superman, as I recall. Unfortunately, I cannot remember (or find!) which episode that is, so there's a gap. Was there a comic book of Superman?

I wasn't really thinking of a comic book about Superman, per se, but rather how having a real superhero would change the comics they have.

Yepyep. It's on SciFi. It was only a 6 episode show, and finished last night. They'll rerun it a few times, I'm sure. Stan Lee put out the call for superheroes, and picked 11 people that came out. Every week except for the last 2, he had 2 people turn in their costumes, weeding them down to who he thought best fit the superhero mold. The winner gets their own comic, written by Stan Lee and put out by Dark Horse comics, a Saturday night movie on SciFi, and a vacation.

I don't recall comic books being mentioned on the series, though something could easily have escaped me.

Batman was mentioned. Tim and Amber Lake have a "one of a kind" car in their collection that they're "just batty about."

In the Marvel comics universe, there is a company called Marvel comics which produces comic books. Some of them are about actual heroes who exist in that universe.

In fact, there's a comic book called "She-Hulk" which is about a superhero whose alter ego is a lawyer. She works now at a lawfirm specializing in superhero law. One of the bizzare and humorous twists of the book (the writer, Dan Slott, specializes in that sort of thing) is that they managed to make the comic books admissible evidence. Seems that since they're approved by the Comics Code Authority (a government agency), they actually carry some legal weight.

Comics have also shown up in Kurt Busiek's Astro City. That's a comic book which takes place in a city famous for its large and diverse population of super heroes. Residents are kind of used to it all, but many of the tourists are there specifically because they're superhero crazy. (Probably kind of like things are in Hollywood with movie stars.) One self-promoting hero, Crackerjack, has been shown to have a licensing deal with a comics company.

I think it makes sense, when you think about it. The fact that there are superheroes makes them more believable and interesting. There are cops and lawyers and ER doctors and such in our world, and many of our most popular shows center around fictional accounts of their lives.

If people are willing to buy Superman toys and tshirts and pajamas and everything else, why not comic books, too?

As for "Who Wants to Be a Superhero"... I haven't seen very much of it, but what I did see was pretty fun. Cheesy, over the top, silly, but with its serious moments, too.

Oh, and there were several 9/11 comics that came out within a few months of the tragedy itself. Some about the real heroes of the day. Some about the superheroes' thoughts and reactions. A report in graphical format (to make it "more accessible") is a little odd, but understandable, IMO.

In more questionable taste was the recent (non-continuity) comic in which Batman hunts down Osama Bin Laden. *shakes head*

Paul

I do remember a mention of a comic book on the show and I think it was a Superman comic. So it was probablyfictional stories about Superman or stories loosely based on his actual rescues.

There was a Batman mention on the show. I dont remember if it's DLW or TPVLL but its the part where Superman visits Lois and her prison mate says "the caped crusader" and Lois corrects her saying that she's talking about Batman.

Not in the context of that scene, I'm pretty sure. I think the reference I recall was later than that episode. But, again, it could just as easily have been a fanfic I've picked that out of and I'm confusing the two.

LabRat

Okay, who won? FatMama or FeedbackBoy (or whatever)? I haven't really watched much of it, but I thought the idea that one of them had to hug a mean, tough convict was pretty funny. I mostly saw bits and pieces and the commercials. It was pretty funny that one of them was an ex-stripper, too. I wonder how Stan Lee managed to keep a straight face.

My impression was that all the money made by Superman products went to charity. I just watched that episode with the agent. It might have been the one that Eve Plumb and Penn What's His Name was in - the one about magic and hypnotism.

And yes, the report about 911 is in comic style. It was done that way to try to make it more readable.

Hmm, interesting. Guess it doesn't change all that much. That's almost.. disappointing. But also intriguing. I might have to delve a bit deeper into Marvel. *glances at the unread comics on her coffee table*

Something I either thought of, or had forgotten earlier. The Superman comics, or superhero comic based on a real hero for that matter, probably wouldn't reference a secret identity, would it? Or if it did, it could be used as reasonable doubt.

Classicalla, at the expense of spoilers, it was Feedback. Stan often didn't keep a straight face, but did laugh good-naturedly at the heros.

Smallville has made a lot of references to the comic that Lex Luthor loved as a child, Warrior Angel, but I don't think they ever described him.

In one of the classic graphic novels, The Watchmen, one of the minor details is that because there were masked vigilantes from the 1920s onward nobody felt really comfortable producting comics about them. So instead most comics are about other themes, most notably a pirate / horror story that keeps cropping up in one of the subplots. Only one example of comics about real heroes is mentioned, and that's a piece of Mexican porn.

*facepalms* I really ought to read my comics before bringing up subjects. I see exactly what you're talking about, Paul. X-Men 187 and Ultimate X-Men 72 have bits of the Masked Marvel backup.. which brings up my exact questions. The comic-world Marvel Comics apparently base their comics in "reality" and only make comics based on superheros with unknown identities. And apparently make the villains mad with their portrayals.

If it weren't for the fact that the comics have been sitting on my coffee table for about a week, I'd think someone was psychic.

Marcus, that last bit really truly scares me. *boggle*

Murray might mention comic books in his little speech at the end of ILTY...

Yeah, there it is in the script:

But yeah. Good point about the secret identity. Might be amusing to see what the comics actually do say and how Clark feels about them.

Fic challenge, anyone?

Oh, and the specifics of the deal with Murray were never really given specifically, but he does bring up a good point in that same scene. "That doesn't include my commission, right?"

You do have to pay the people who make the books, and make sure that the company itself gets something out of it all.

My personal guess is that Superman's portion of the profits (i.e. the royalties) gets donated to charity. Perhaps the companies also donate part of their profits (it's good PR, could be made part of the deal, and is a tax write-off), but I just can't see them giving it all away.

lol about the comics, Karen. I haven't read mine yet, either. (I get them mail-ordered, and I was out of town, so I had to get the shipment held until this week.) I'll look forward to UXM (I dropped the 616 X-books years ago, with Zero Tolerance...).

Note, though, that that's only Marvel. I'm not sure how comics work in the DCU. (Personally, I kind of like the idea that people in the DCU are reading Marvel comics... stuff about "fictional" superheroes.)

Come to think, though, there was an issue of Catwoman a year or so back with a Catwoman video game. They mentioned that because she's still technically a criminal (even though she's been one of the good guys for a while now), the game designers figured she couldn't sue.

Still not sure about comics, though. But then, I've been a Marvel reader a lot longer than I've been a DC reader.

As for Watchmen... It's a deconstructionist book. The whole point of it is to tear down traditional ideas about superheroes. It can be dark, creepy, and rather twisted at times. As Marcus mentioned, it's considered a classic. Didn't do much for me, personally, but was at least worth reading once, to see what people were talking about.

Then again, I felt the same way about Dark Knight Returns, the other "classic" book that helped launch the "grim and gritty" period of comics. Had its moments, but overall... not my tastes. I'm much happier with the book that started putting superheroes back together: Astro City.

Paul

I'm thinking that any comic in the Superman world about him would go more for the angle that he has no secret identity and that all he does all the time is be Superman. Wouldn't Clark push for that, too?

Any you are right, Murray isn't going to work for free. Other people have to be paid, too. It could still be set up to be mostly a charitable organization, though. I mean people work for the Red Cross and get paid but it is still a charitable organization.

Interesting fic challenge, Paul. Put it under that category (if you haven't already) and see what happens.

So, Paul I noticed you said you only read Marvel comics. I'm curious if you know about those Marvel-DC comic collaborations that occurred so long ago? I actually have a comic where Spiderman and Superman team up! They were rarities and most that I'm aware of were HUGE! I mean huge like poster size huge. The comics themselves are something I've rarely heard mentioned so maybe there wasn't many published or maybe they didn't go over well.

I feel mostly the same about the Dark Knight. I don't like the idea of a super vigilante Batman. I do like the way that it better shows why Bruce Wayne became Batman.

Most of the Marvel/DC Xovers were in the Silver Age - way before my time. I've read a reasonable number of them, though. Mostly in trade paperback form .

I did read Amalgam comics when they first came out, though. Those were cool.

Oh, and there were a couple a few years back. With Spidey and Batman, and I think a DareDevil/Batman, as well.

As for the Red Cross... I'm not sure that's the best example. What we're talking about (most likely) is an established comic book company getting the rights to publish Superman comics... under certain conditions.

There's no reason to think that in the time before Superman's debut, comics companies wouldn't have existed the same way they do in our world. Seems likely Murray would end up negotiating with them.

Those are companies looking to make a profit, and, while they would get some benefit just from the prestige of publishing official Superman comics, I doubt they'd really be happy about giving all their profits on the title away.

When you get down to it, though, we have no actual evidence of what happened there. We're each free to imagine it our own way.

As for the comics themselves... I'm not sure. I like the idea of a Superman with no secret identity, but a comic like that would get boring pretty quickly, wouldn't it? There's a lot more to a good comic book than flying around and beating up bad guys. You need a good supporting cast...

Of course, I suppose there's a fair amount you can do with the existing cast: Superman, Lois Lane, Perry White, Jimmy Olsen... and Clark Kent.

There could even be that traditional love triangle, with Clark wooing Lois while she's being dazzled by Superman.

Of course, then you're getting into some sticky issues. The DP has its own lawyers, and granting permission to tell a story about Superman doesn't include the rights to use the names and images of his known friends.

Hrm. But there could be a fictionalized version. "I Can't Believe It's Not The Daily Planet." (But with a catchier title.)

Or maybe Superman spends his time in "The Fortress of Solitude," a fictional lair near the South Pole named after something Superman mentioned once when the comics writers were looking for some background info.

Maybe I should go post that challenge...

Paul

Sorry, should have made that clear - it's a very dark and nasty world, where the presence of one person with true superpowers - Dr. Manhattan, who is about as powerful as Superman - has destabilised the international scene so badly that nuclear war seems a real possibility. Don't want to say more in case I spoil it for someone, the plot is VERY intricate and a lot of the characters have multiple secrets.

I was just referencing the Red Cross as a charitable organization in general.

The idea of having an established comic book company publishing a Superman comic hadn't occurred to me - very interesting.

I don't much care for The Watchmen. I like stuff a little happier.

When DC redid Wonder Woman, there was an issue where she had to approve a comic about her life on Paradise Island. But then, this version didn't have a secret identity to hide...