Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Off Topic What's a Pudding?

Okay, I'm calling on all of my non-US friends (mostly the UK folks) to help me out with some definitions. I've been rereading Harry Potter lately, and I'm finally breaking down to ask: what the heck is a pudding?

Let me clarify. Here in the US, 'pudding' is a desert, very creamy, usually coming in the flavors of chocolate, vanilla or butterscotch. Its closest cousin is a custard, although pudding isn't made with eggs. It's very smooth and sweet, dairy based, and definitely a non-nutritional treat - you eat it with a spoon, no need to chew. It looks like this:


Sometimes pudding can be made with bread in it, or we use it to make other deserts (banana 'Nilla Wafer desert is a personal favorite of mine!). No matter what, though, in the US, pudding is NEVER made with any sort of meat in it (at least to my knowledge and my definition of the word). The idea is actually rather revolting.

So, how do the rest of you define 'pudding'? I'd always taken it to be the UK general term for any kind of desert. Yet, as I understand it, Yorkshire Pudding has meat in it, which I don't consider desert material.

And while I'm here, can someone tell be what treacle is? Again, I'm thinking it must be some kind of desert.

And what, exactly, is a pastie? I know y'all don't even pronounce it the way we would. We would say PAY-stee (long a vowel sound) while you would go with PASS-tee. What is it, even? Do we have an equivalent? Here, a pastie is something a woman of ill-repute might use as part of her wardrobe!! Think Janet Jackson's Nipplegate Spectacle.

Thanks so much for any clarification. I just have to know what these people are eating.

Lynn

British puddings in general tend to be heavier than American - the classic British Christmas pudding includes dough, dried fruit, lard (basically fat) or butter, brandy, etc.

For Yorkshire pudding try http://www.britannia.com/cooking/recipes/yorkshirepudding.html which also has links to some other British foods.

It's basically a savoury accompaniment to meat, especially beef - it's generally crisp on top and rises as it's cooked, and somewhat rubbery underneath. You sometimes see hollow Yorkshire puddings with minced meat and vegetables inside, as an alternative to more conventional meat pies. If (like me) you're no good with pastry you can buy ready-made Yorkshire puddings, just heat them in the oven. They're very nice with (for example) caramelised onion inside.

Treacle is a form of syrup, made from concentrated sugar cane. I think that the American equivalent is molasses.

Pasties are basically things wrapped in crisp well-cooked dough - for example, a Cornish pastie is beef, onions, and potato, other variants use different meats, cheese, vegetables, etc. They're usually made in a sort of D shape like a small calzone.

It depends on whether you're using pudding as a specific or general term. There are all kinds of desserts which use pudding in the title - treacle pudding etc. But many UKers also use pudding as a general term to mean dessert - 'We had a pudding after our dinner' - and in that context it can mean anything from apple crumble to death by chocolate.

And, yes, the exception to the rule is Yorkshire pudding which is a doughy addition to meat and two veg. Used in the same way that you would use biscuits, I think. Usually with gravy.

You can see pictures of Yorkshire Puddings here from the Aunt Bessie's food range. Apparently, you can buy these in the US, too.

Treacle is a very dark, sticky syrup...and I see that Marcus has dealt with that and pasties already. Yes, I think he's right that the US version of treacle is molasses.

LabRat

Yes, the Aunt Bessie's range was what I was thinking of - haven't tried any of the prefilled types, but the large empty one filled with caramelised onions (I use several different types of onion, plus a little garlic and maple syrup for added flavour) is VERY nice.

Yorkshire pudding isn't the only savoury pudding.

Haggis, in the words of the Scottish national bard, Rabbie Burns, is the:

"Great chieftain o' the puddin' race!"

Otherwise, I'm with Rat. Pudding, to me, is just another term for dessert. Steamed puddings are made in a pudding basin (shaped like a mixing bowl), and are usually a mixture of dried fruit, sugar, flour, fat, fruit peel, eggs or some variation thereon. The basin is covered with greaseproof paper, tied with string, and then to cook, you steam it - ie, put the basin in a pan of boiling water over the stove and boil for an hour or longer.

Yvonne

Yeah, Rabbie and I disagree on that one. <g> Somehow, I just can't think of haggis as a pudding. Although, I suppose...now that you mention it...it does come into the same group as black pudding, fruit pudding...being encased in a sausage-like skin.

Might have to reconsider that one.

LabRat (who used to adore fruit pudding in a fry-up for Sunday breakfast when she was a kid and before all those nutritionists spoiled things by saying it was all so unhealthy...)

Sorry for this slight departure, but also after reading HP, I still can't quite figure out the pronunciation of Whinging, as in the town of Little Whinging.

Is that Win-jing or Wing-ing?

Nope, it's WH - IN - JING. The H isn't silent.


Wendy

I have to add in here, Lynn, that there are people in these United States who do eat pasties that have nothing to do with Janet Jackson's Superbowl display.

PAY-stee is what JJ needed and PASS-tee is the food. That's how it's said in Michigan where they are available. They're especially popular in the Upper Peninsula.

However, no treacle pudding (or treacle tarts)...or for that matter Yorkshire puddings. And then there's vegemite. Try explaining the appeal of that to someone.

As in "Whine" - whinging is a slang term for whining.

Thank you all so much! What an education.

So...pasties are kind of like a tart. A dough filled with some kind of filling either sweet or savory, folded over and sealed, then baked. Half-circle in shape. Kind of like a perogie, then. Is the dough sweet and flakey (like a pie crust/tart) or more of a pasta (like a perogie)? And I imagine when it's cooked, the shell is crispy, like a pie crust?

I get treacle = molasses. Perfect!

And it sounds like 'pudding' encompasses a variety of items. That site with the pre-made Yorkshire puddings was interesting. They look like little pre-made dough-shells that you could fill with anything. I like that idea.

Next time we come to England, my quest will be to try as many 'puddings' as I can. I may have to give a pass to any of the ones involving blood as an ingredient (black pudding, blood pudding?) or that is cooked inside the entrails of an animal (haggis?). :shudder: My husband is very brave, so he can be our taste tester!


Lynn

Well, it's not dough at all; it's pastry. Pastry is made with flour, butter/margarine and water; dough is specifically for bread or pizza-base and will also have yeast or eggs and may not have butter, depending on what it's for.

The pastry for a pastie is flaky, but not sweet, because a pastie is savoury - the traditional Cornish pastie has chunks of beef, potatoes and some other vegetables.

Oh, and they're considerably larger than perogies. One pastie would be enough for lunch. In fact, that's how they originated - I believe it was Cornish tin-miners who were sent off to work with their 'dinner' in the form of a pastie.

Here's the Wikipedia entry on the subject - and I was right about the tin-miners!


Wendy

The traditional Yorkshire pudding is actually just pastry and is capped off at the top, so no space to put anything inside it. It's more solid. I hadn't been aware of these new-fangled fill 'em with sausage versions until this thread. But then Yorkshire puddings of any kind were never part of my Sunday dinner growing up. So I'm definitely no expert on them.

With these new versions they seem to be trying to ape our traditional Scotch Pies.

Yes, black pudding is made with blood. I've never eaten any, always loathed it. Fruit pudding is a kind of doughy, suet version, with raisins and sultanas etc, which you slice up and fry with the usual fried breakfast ingrediants and that is delicious, I have to say.

As for haggis - I'd recommend giving it a go. I avoided it for decades because of its origins and then recently I was persuaded to try it by Stuart, who had been converted himself by a workmate cooking it for dinner at the fire station. And I have to say it's pretty dang tasty. Just like a spicy mince. Wonderful with mashed potatoes and turnips.

LabRat

Boy, we're such a bunch of pedants when it comes to food definitions, aren't we?

It's not pastry, it's batter - it has a completely different texture to pastry. And before you ask what the difference is between pastry and batter, since they can both contain flour, fat, and even milk and eggs, I guess it's all in the balance between ingredients. Batter is runny, pastry isn't.

Never heard of fruit pudding, Rat, but it does sound awfully nice! Why are the best foods always the most unhealthy? It's not fair.

Yvonne

Oh, I know this is an old old post, but I've been away for a while, and there's a few Yorkshire women deep in my past and they wouldn't let this one go. Please forgive me.

The small Yorkshire puddings you have with your Sunday roast are not how they eat Yorkshire's in Yorkshire. In Yorkshire they are the size of a dinner plate, and the rest of the meal is served inside them, covered (floating usually) in gravy.

And they are beautiful.

That's all! You may resume your normal topics.

Helga