Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Off Topic Superman Returns WOW! My review! SPOILERS!!

I wasn't impressed. Most of the things that makes me like L&C was lacking in this movie. Routh is an excellent cast for Superman, the CGI is state of the art and the picture is beautiful.

But it takes more to make a good movie.

It has no humor, no warmth, no plot or suspense. This Superman is like terminator II(why do humans cry?), Reeves at least put in a couple of puns.
Singer's Superman isn't uncomfortable about his powers. He saves people but he doesn't seem to care for them.

And for Bosworth, a lot of hair and not much else.
I hate token female love interests.

No humor? What film did you see? I've seen it SIX times and every time I saw it there was a theatre FULL of people cracking up and laughing their a$$es off!!! There are so many funny parts in this film, I just don't understand how you found no humor in it?

To me it is a near perfect balance of humor, drama, action, and romance. People laugh, cry and clap *every* time I see it - a true range of emotions. The action is beyond amazing as well!

Most people are on the edge of their seats, especially during the last half hour of the film - so there is your suspense!

As for warmth, did you not *see* the last 20-30 minutes of the film? I got WAFF all over!!!

You got *plenty* of romance if you paid attention, I think some here are just disappointed because this *isn't* "Lois & Clark," far from it. As a lifelong Superman fan though, personally I loved every minute of this experience - SIX times so far LOL!

Brandon is spectacular and nothing less than *SUPER*, Kevin is diaboloical, and Bryan Singer made one heck of a darn good film that stays true to the Superman legend - with a few nice new twists thrown in for modernization!

I won't debate anyone on their opinion - but not finding any humor in it, that one I simply can't understand?

Well if you and other people enjoy it. More power to you. I’m obviously in the minority here.

What was supposed to be funny? Lois having already “done Superman”. Or Luthor on the desert Island? The sonic boom thing? I can recall little else.

Truly?.. they are really that worried that Superman wont save the day?

I see no spark between them, to me that is necessary to get a waffy feeling. A woman crying over an unconscious man doesn’t automatically make me bring out my handkerchief.

But we saw the computers and such at the DP much earlier in the movie. And there was the entire thing with the spaceplane. I don't have a problem with the bowtie - it's just something frequently associated with Jimmy.

Yeah, I wish they'd been clearer on the "vague history" thing so I knew exactly what counted.

Same here.

I thought there was tons of love, if not romance. It just permeated the movie to me. Their feelings were strong and intense and it was wonderful to me.

SOME BIG SPOILERS IN THIS POST!!!!!

Obviously. But it is still your opinion and I thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Wow, well I won't even rehash *all* of the funny scenes for you - because that could take a while LOL. I'm just observing here, but it seems to me like you went into this movie with disdain from the beginning, rather than an open mind? A few scenes that got huge laughs pretty much everytime, besides the few you mentioned, were:

1. Clark throwing the ball and the dog starting to chase after it
2. Kitty saying "Weren't there two of those?" (granted this is a little more disturbing than funny, but the way she delivered the line was great!)
3. Kitty again "Wow, that's really something Lex... it's freakin' Gone With The Wind!" - then the henchman (sorry can't remember which one) turned off the camera and everything going black - "I think I did something wrong!"
4. Jimmy and Clark both, during the burrito scene - and Lois was funny there too, standing with the stunned look on her face - her hair all frumpy!
5. Jimmy "Don't ask Ms. Lane when they're tying the knot, because ... SHE ... HATES that question!"
6. Jimmy "My camera's not working, and my phone's not working ... OK I'm good!" - and him saying proudly to Perry "I think they're coordinates Chief!"
7. Just about any line that referred to the Reeve films got people to chuckle or laugh! Especially the "hope this little incident hasn't put any of you off flying" scene - and him blowing out her cigarette lighter, to name a few.
8. Kitty's response to Lex - "You're losing your hair." "Get out."
9. Heck just about any line from Kitty and/or Jimmy - and several of Lex's lines too!
10. Perry saying Lois can't write worth a damn about sex!
11. Jason to Lex "You bald!"
12. Jason "Are we tresspassing?"
13. Do I need to go on - because believe me I can?

What movie did you see again?? Most people were worried that Superman would not even *survive!* The fact that he literally was willing to *kill himself* to save the world was what made the whole movie so powerful, as far as I'm concerned!! That and the relationships between the characters.

Guess that says more about you than the film itself? I'm sorry that you didn't feel anything for the characters, truly. There were so many emotional scenes in the last part of the film - and I wasn't just referring to the scenes with Lois and Superman. This movie was about a lot more than just THEIR relationship. Some of the scenes near the end that I believe were touching and emotional:

1. Superman lifting New Krypton and facing his own death - then people having to watch their hero fall, literally
2. The enormous crowd surrounding the hospital, supporting Superman
3. Lois & Jason in the hospital - mainly the end of that scene, when Jason goes back and kisses Superman!
4. Martha standing outside the hospital, waiting, and not even able to see her own son
5. The bedroom scene with Superman and Jason, probably the most poignant scene in the whole film!!
6. Heck, even the final fly-by which was an obvious dedication to Chris Reeve at the end was dripping with emotion - if not only for Chris' memory!

I can understand if you didn't see any chemistry between Brandon and Kate - because the chemistry was fleeting IMO. Still, the story and the performances alone (especially Brandon, personally Kate could've been better IMHO) was enough to touch most people.

Well, let's all remember that humour is a very subjective thing. What one person finds amusing another won't twitch a chuckle at. The same, of course, goes for what we like and dislike.

Let's not let our enthusiasm for this movie lead us into implying without perhaps meaning to that there's something wrong with anyone who doesn't agree that it's the bestest movie ever. It's got little to do with 'paying attention' or being against it because it's just not LNC or that not finding some part of the movie hilarious says more about the person watching than the movie...it's just a simple difference of opinion and taste.

And it is opinion, not fact, whether this movie is good or whether it was amusing. So let's respect those varying opinions and tastes - no matter which of them is in the minority.


LabRat

Well the 1,000 or so people I have seen the film with since I've gone 6 times already all seemed to find plenty of humor in the film. That's all I was saying.

Also, note that I did point out at the beginning of my post that I respected the opinion of others. It goes without saying that anything I post is *my* own opinion - so I would expect the same respect.

Just like it is my *opinion* to say that you are missing out, Lab, on not wanting to see this film.

SuperGEM,
I was quite possible prejudiced, disdain is far to strong a word. The L & C series have given me rather particular views of what the characters entails.
I expected good CGI, a sucky Lois, and a plot with some twists(maybe even without kryptonite). Got two out of three.

No, I think you have demonstrated the amount of humor or lack there of adequately.

Sorry, but was the theatre filled with ten year olds? How anyone above that age could imagine that Superman wouldn’t come through in a Hollywood movie is simply beyond me.

Well perhaps I’m just jaded but what would you do with a injured hero? Frantic hospital ride, Lot of interested bystanders, grieving women, and now the little boy will kiss him good by. Yep there he goes.

Don’t worry about it. I have seen what I perceive as mediocre character interaction and scripting before without it adversely affecting my well being, but thank you for your concern.

Since you seem to find my negative view disturbing you should perhaps know that very few films get me jumping in my seat.

Ok, I'm sorry, but I found that really offensive. I respect your opinion greatly; there's no law that says we all have to like the same movies. If we all did, the world would be a snore. But to imply that only a bunch of 10 year olds would find suspense in a movie is actually kind of insulting, even if you didn't intend it that way. Please, share your opinions all you want; just don't generalize like that.

Thanks,
Jen

Yes, humour is indeed a very subjective thing, just as our own personal opinions on many other topics that hit this message board. Lois' hair, Clark's hair, Lois' clothes...on these and many other topics we all hold strong personal opinions. Sometimes those opinions are split pretty evenly down the middle, sometimes the "vote" is markedly leaning towards one side. But everyone's opinions are, of course, valid.

I went to see Superman Returns on July 4. It was a large theatre in San Jose, so even though it wasn't packed, the audience size was respectable. I had read most of the spoilers going in, I had read FoLCs' reviews both for and against the movie. I personally didn't find very much humour, but I did chuckle a little at Kitty. The only audience response that I recall were a few laughs at the two references to the dogs (which I didn't find funny).

As a matter of fact, the audience response to the entire movie was almost non-existent. Just a few scattered chuckles. No claps and cheers at the title screen, no collective gasps of fear/horror when Superman was getting the tar beaten out of him, no sighs of delight during Superman and Lois' flight, no murmurs during the flyby at the end - nothing. Was it just a dead audience, full of people just killing time before heading off to a 4th of July barbecue? Perhaps, but we've seen other "big" releases here - X-Men III, Star Wars ep.III, Harry Potter - that garnered a lot more audience response than that.

For me there were a number of things I liked about the movie, and a lot that I didn't. Did I go in expecting it to be another L&C? No. I was expecting it to be closer to the first two Superman movies, which I've loved (with the exception of the amnesia kiss) from their first release and which I still love, despite the fact that I prefer Dean's Clark to Christopher's. But this movie didn't bring that feeling to me. The special effects were dazzling, of course, and were incredibly effective in so many places. But sometimes I felt it was overkill, and too much emphasis placed on the effects (which was what happened with the first Star Trek movie so many years ago).

I don't plan to go to the theatre again to see it, but will certainly buy it when it comes out on DVD, and I do plan to see whatever sequels are produced.

Kathy

Why not? A great lack of experience with Hollywood productions is the only explanation to suspense at Superman’s fate that I can think of. The presence of children being a reasonable extrapolation IMO. If my assumption is wrong, I’m happy to be shown the error of my ways.

I'm on a Superman high. Just got back from the theater. Got to use my free movie pass, AND also got a free popcorn. Just perfect.

I LOVED the movie! Especially the soundtrack. Kept singing along (good thing the theater was almost empty; went to a matinée )

malu

I think she was only commenting on the fact that your statement was offensive, which I agree. So I suppose I have the mindset of a 10-year-old if I enjoyed the film? That is a little rude and crass of you to assume. I don't agree with your opinions either, but of course they are your opinions. I have my own. There is no need to get nasty about it!

On a side note - I have noticed that people who *didn't* enjoy the film tend to get rather nasty toward the people who *did,* almost as if we have a lot of nerve for enjoying ourselves and the film. Not sure why, that is just something I have noticed. So since I'm on a big Superman high again tonight, your somewhat rude comments will just bounce off of me like a bullet! Thanks for seeing the film and for sharing your thoughts on it, but I think it is safe to say that we had better just agree to disagree!

Genine, you are of course entitled to your opinion, but since you and Jen objected to the "generalization" that you felt that Arawn made, I'm surprised that you would offer up one of your own immediately after. And one that those who weren't wild about the movie (such as myself) could take equal offense to.

I've read all the reviews both here and at Zoom's. After reading your latest post, I just skimmed through the ones here again, and I personally saw nowhere where those who weren't particularly keen on the film (the very definite minority of posters, btw) had any kind of "nasty attitude" towards those who loved it. With the possible exception of Arawn, whose comments might not have been meant exactly as they were posted, everyone with a minority dissenting view has appeared to be very polite and upfront with their opinion. If you'd like to point out specific examples, I'd be curious to see them and see if others interpreted them the same way that as you do.

This topic can obviously become as much a hot potato as discussion of politics or religion. We have people jumping up and down with excitement about the movie, and there are others who have enough negative feelings that they're left feeling ambivalent or even critical. But as we've all said 100 times or more, we're all entitled to our own opinions. And we all need to be careful about making general statements and risking making hurtful/insulting comments to/about others.

Kathy

I will never understand why people seem to pick and choose who they side with? Why do there need to even be sides??? I've been a very respective member of these boards for years - and of online FoLCdom for *more than 11 years,* and yet my comments are criticized while Arawn's are not? :rolleyes: Why is that? The comments that Arawn made were the initially insulting ones. I made a point to include my respect of the opinions of others, Arawn made no such statement. Arawn also kept the insults coming after another person pointed out how insulting the comments were.

For the record, I wasn't just referring to the reaction on these boards specifically. Believe it or not, there are a *lot* of Superman fans out there! I was referring to them in general. Yes, I made a generalization - but I acknowledged that and even apologized in advance for it. I should have been more clear about the fact that I was referring to thousands of fans all over the net, not just fans here - I realize - but sheesh!

Kathy I am honestly hurt that you feel the need to single me out like this? Guess I'm not surprised though.

People can choose to take offence over almost anything.
For instance in your posts so far you have suggested that I lacked an open mind, that I haven’t seen the film, that my different opinion stemmed from inattention. That I approached the film with disdain. Implied that my inability to perceive the romance stemmed from something weird in my psychological make-up. Pitied me for my inability grasp the greatness of the film.

Some people might find that offensive, I didn’t, because I never thought it was your intention to offend.

I have no idea how old you are, but since you asked, you do come across rather young(and I don’t find youth offensive.)
Now if my reference to ten year old came a cross as condescending,(and I can see that it would.) I’m sorry.

I saw the movie twice in two days and *loved* it. I grew up on the original Chris Reeve movies and loved them, but never became a real fan of Superman until Lois and Clark came along. I thought I could never love any other incarnation of Superman after LnC, but this movie just made it happen.

Loved it to pieces. Brandon Routh was *perfect* as Superman/Clark, and made me fall in love with the hero all over again. Before this movie came out, I thought that he was too young for the part, blah, blah, but he managed to fill some pretty big shoes pretty darn well. I take back everything bad I ever said about him -- he *is* Superman to me now, and I totally get what CC means by "Dean in the suit". Dean's still the best Clark Kent, but Routh *is* Superman!

Loved the poignancy of the love triangle -- Superman's pain when he thinks that Lois never loved him, and realises that she has moved on with her life in his absence. Richard's pain when he realises that Lois was always in love with Superman -- that scene where he drives her to the hospital and says that he'll wait for her just broke my heart! He would have stayed with her, even knowing that she didn't love him. *sob!*

Loved how the movie leaves you in doubt about Jason's paternity at the beginning -- when he comes in and has asthma and all, I'm thinking, oh well, he has to be human -- but then, as Lois says, "he's gonna grow up to be big and strong like his daddy," and the camera pans up to Clark standing there -- Wow!

Loved the way Lois and Richard actually consider the idea that Clark is Superman -- then laugh it off!

Loved the way Supes stops halfway out to sea when he sees the earthquake coming, and the decision he makes to go back to Metropolis before going to rescue Lois. This, to me, is quintessential Superman -- the hero for our *world*, who would die to save us all, if he had to. Of course, his decision is also influenced by his recent experience in Superman II, when he chose being with Lois over his responsibilities to the world, and Metropolis suffered for it.

(The "father-son" talk was actually filmed for SM II but got edited out due to legal problems with Marlon Brando. When Clark goes back to the FOS to ask for his superpowers back, he apologises to his father for "giving up his birthright" out of selfishness. His loneliness is painful, and reminiscent of the end of Spiderman I.)

Loved how Richard rescues Lois -- if you look carefully, in the scene where Jimmy shows them the fax, *both* Clark and Richard run out of the newsroom tugging at their neckties! And when Lois asks Richard how he got to her, and he answers, "I flew." As if it's the most obvious thing in the world. Loved it.

Loved the fact that when Supes flew back to the island after being rescued by Lois and co, he *knew* that he was going to his death. And this time he does say goodbye, and I love the way he looks at the people in the plane -- Lois, Richard and Jason -- before he flies off, sort of coming to terms with the fact that Lois has a family now, as he leaves to do his duty.

Loved the bullet bouncing off his eye. Loved the airplane rescue. Loved the private little "You okay?" to Lois after that rescue. Loved how he watches her through walls.

Loved that he subconsciously wanted her to find out that CK=S. I agree with CC, about the part when his glasses fall off and he just pauses, and you can tell that he *wants* Lois to look up and see his face. And again on the roof, when Superman tells her that her tape recorder is in her pocket, which is something only Clark would have known -- he seems to do it on purpose, and seems a bit disappointed when Lois doesn't guess it.

Loved the way Brandon Routh manages to convey those subtle emotions with his expressions -- the hurt and disappointment when he realises Lois has moved on, the decision-making set of his jaw when he realises that it's time for Superman to reappear; the secret smile he has when he's watching Lois from afar. The way his eyes just shine with love for her -- when he first returns to the newsroom and asks where Lois is, and then sees her on the TV screen.

Sigh! I want to marry Brandon Routh. And, CC, we take turns to mow Bryan Singer's lawn, ok?

Something I found interesting while watching the movie was that, in many scenes, Brandon Routh actually *looked* like Christopher Reeve (depending on the angle the camera was in). It was like seeing Christopher Reeve as Superman again. I thought that was so cool!

And I loved the references to the original Superman movies (opening credits, flying with Lois, ending scene, THE SOUNDTRACK) and the comic books (scene of Superman holding car above his head).

Yes, it's next morning here and I still am on a Superman high.

malu

Interesting review, Jude. And all the others in this thread, too.

Guess I'm going to ask for a spoiler here, because I'm confused on one very crucial point. (from my POV. that is ) At the end of the film, is the implication, then, that Lois and Superman will *not* end up together? Is the film setting us up for a sequel in which the Superman - Lois relationship is permanently ended?

I haven't seen the movie yet, and am not sure I will - two big things are bothering me, and it doesn't sound like they've been explained or that explanations are even hinted at in the film. Because of these two points, I'm not sure I can do the "willing suspension of disbelief" thing. I can do it for a guy flying but...

1. Superman's memory wipe of Lois is a pretty villanous thing to have done (am thinking of fanfics where bad guys do memory wipes on either Superman or Lois) I mean isn't it a violation of the Geneva Conventions or something? like, that action speaks to his character and it's not saying good things. Mind control, etc!
Not to mention his taking off on his little Odyssey without telling her.
Some fuss has been made about the missing "American Way", but I'm thinking Supes has played games with "Truth" in all this.

2. Just how long did Lois wait for Superman before hopping into bed with Richard??
The implication seems to be it's like a week, tops. How is that action consistent with a woman in love waiting for her disappeared lover to return? (okay, I know, I know: if I were truly post-modern liberated I'd been okay with her having sex with Tom, Dick (Richard) and Harry while still madly in love with someone else with whom she believes she has a relationship. But Hollywood mainstream is not post modern liberated either, and the rule there is "The. Woman. Must. Pay." - So I have some misgivings about what the sequel will do to Lois and how it will treat Superman's love for her. I really hope I'm wrong about this, but..... )

However, it does sound like the movie has amazing special effects and Routh does a great Chris Reeves impersonation. I'm disappointed about there not being much Clark Kent in the film, but that I can wait for in the sequel.

c. (who usually reads the end of long fanfics before commiting to a story. )

Good to hear from you, Carol!

I haven't seen the movie either - it doesn't open here until July 28 - but I have to comment on some things you said:
It was AWFUL!!!! Which is why I thought I would have to give up on Superman forever after seeing Superman II.

It was bad, horrible, through and through. But actually I have wanted this topic addressed ever since I watched Superman II. As some of you people on these boards may have noticed, I tend to be more suspicious of Clark and more forgiving of Lois than most of you. I think, bottom line, that a number of bad and devious things I have seen Superman do to Lois in the comics, and above all what he did to her in Superman II, means I don't fully, totally trust him. I didn't want that old Christopher Reeve movie to be completely buried - I wanted Superman's behaviour in that one to be brought to light again, and I wanted him to have to answer for his actions.



The point is, I think, that Lois didn't know that Superman had been her lover. He had taken away her memory of it. Even so, admittedly, her new romance with Richard must have happened very fast.

This is depressingly, depressingly true.

I just wish I could feel completely confident that the Clark/Lois relationship is here to stay in the sequel to this movie, but unfortunately I'm not sure. Let's just hope those movie moguls decide that it may reflect badly on their all-American icon if he dumps his long-time girlfriend whom he even knocked up, as well.

(Of course... they might get rid of Lois by simply killing her. That way Clark could lose Lois and look blameless about it, and it would leave him free to, say, court Lana or something. Or, you know, they could kill both Lois and Jason, thus taking away the kid if they have changed their minds about this addition to the Superman mythos. If they kill both Lois and Jason, they would, so to speak, kill two birds with one stone. You think those movie people would do that? And am I a worrier or am I a worrier?)

Speaking again about Superman as the defender of Truth: So why couldn't he tell Lois he is Clark Kent, then? Why not tell her instead of sort of hope she might notice? Clark Kent is the father of Lois's child, shouldn't she be told about that? Particularly since it is Clark who has made sure that Lois can't know this, by taking away her knowledge of his double identity?

Finally:
Me, too!

Ann