Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Lois & Clark Fanfic FDK: In a Better Place, part 16

Glad I could help, CC.

Do we get to see the new paragraph, or do we need to wait for the archive version?

Oh, and while I'm writing... Kind of OT, but thought I'd take a sec...

For those interested, there's an old book by Isaac Asimov called "The End of Eternity." It deals with a company which puts up an innocuous front, but which is secretly monitoring the timestream and sending agents around to fix things. Their goal is to achieve utopia by making changes to the past. (Don't get me wrong, BTW -- CC's story is very different and, frankly, much better).

Some of the ideas put forth by the book are that even small changes to the past can have unpredictable effects and that utopia breeds stagnancy.

Unfortunately, the plot centers around an iterative closed temporal loop with no possible entry point and also involves a period of future time which, despite all the changes being made to the past, somehow manages to remain static.

I'm mentioning it mostly because it's the book that got me to think about things like option 2 above. Going back to fix your own mistakes can, in the long run, really mess things up worse than they were before, and repeatedly mucking about with the timestream can have similarly disasterous results.

Hmm. That was kind of longer than I'd meant it to be. Sorry. Anyway, it's an interesting read and kind of pertinent to the subject at hand, so I thought I'd share. <shrug>

Paul

Okay, I'm back. And it's because this comment folder made my jawdrop, literally, more than a few times!

Hazel, that is just great! Wow. And, CC, like the bagel thing... if this wasn't your original plan, just pretend it was.

My point here now is to embarrass myself further, throw out as many ideas as I can so that CC can make her enigmatic comments on how brilliant all these ideas are, and that one of them is right. That way... I can sit and ponder endlessly which one it might be.

Oh... Yes, I'd quoted one more thing of Hazel's for a reason... *ahem* The reset button... Here I was at the end of the section, watching Madge look at the lifelines dwindling... and for some crazy odd reason, I was expecting the lifelines to spike dramatically because... Well, you know, L&C are up in the attic...

And on to Chris's comments:

This is one thing I've been trying not to even contemplate because it's just so... impossible to figure out why! I admire you, Chris, for even attempting it. I do have one thought on that, though... and I'm hoping dearly that I'm right... Lois and Clark arrive back in their time later because this way they keep their memories. If they arrive at the same time or just before they left (like in Tempus Fugitive), everything's gone. But if they come back later... well, here's hoping that this is what saves their memories, or at least some of them.

And touching on something the other Chris said:

Well, here's my theory (since it does seem to be reccomended that you have at least *some* kind of theory on something while reading this story... good form and all that...): This story is just going to end. Abruptly. *Then* CC is going to start posting the sequel: "Just Kidding... You Guys Seriously Thought I'd Kept It to 18 Parts? I'm. So. Smug. But. Going. Into. Hiding. Now."

Yes, it's a long title, but hey, it's the sequel!! ) expectations, but just look at what you've done! *This* is what I'd hoped the class would be like! You've created (and expounded upon) a true utopia. Now look at all the discussions you've inspired. Pros. Cons. Paradoxes. Just everything under the sun. It's like I've taken a utopia class twice in one semester and I feel just so smart to have all this extra knowledge and theory swimming around inside my brain! I feel priveledged!

And moving on...

Paul!!!! I'm... what's that word? GOBSMACKED! Really. I was reading your post and thinking along and drawing my own conclusions blindly... then yours smacked right into me without warning! How smart is that?! OMG! I'm with TJ on this one... CC, if you already had this planned, you're even more of a genius than I thought!! And HUGE kudos to Paul for coming up with that one on his own! How great is that?!

And that concludes my way too long fdk on (not even my own!) fdk. For now.

Have I mentioned that you're a brilliant genius and I love you, CC?

Sara

From "Tempus Fugitive", Tempus' own words to describe (yawn) Utopia:

Quote

Tempus: A world of peace, a world with no greed or crime, a world so boring, you'd blow your brains out, but there are no guns. You want to know the future, miss Lane? No one works, no one argues, there are 9000 channels and nothing on!

You know, I used to be a teacher, and one of things you notice is group dynamics. Put five people in a room, all of them leaders, and yet one will rise to the top and lead the group.

Take five brilliant students, with no discipline problems and put them in a room. One of them will be the cut-up of the class.

Take 100 John Smiths, put them in Utopia...one of them will get bored and try to stir things up!

<-- has no words

I meant to note as I was BRing that I must be the only dodo who doesn't universally recognize a "bear claw" as the ultimate pastry. I'm actually highly food-oriented, and yet, I have to stop and think "now what does a bear claw look like?" every time I see it. I figured "danish" was generic or something....since they wouldn't know what a 'bagel with a shmear' is in Utopia (low cholesterol society that it's become). Just another indication that I've fallen into cultural left field....

Oh, and, yeah...the race against time is on! Go good guys! (Well, except L&C--you stay upstairs where you belong.) This is, of course, wonderful.

Sherry

What else is there to say??!

Awesome! Love Lois and Clark's conversation and the sweet smoochies (ok sometimes I only have one thing on my mind..sue me!).

I had figured that it was Tempus in that bag and I wouldn't put it past you to have faked us out.

I also see how this whole adventure will change Utopia so fundamentally yet for the better. Lois' changed perspective was so natural and real in this story. Knowing her like we do, we can really see her 'grow up' and shoulder the responsibilities that she knows she'll have without running screaming in the other direction b/c it involves real commitment to another person! (sorry, run on sentence).

I will miss this story when it's done. I always say that at the end of all your fics CC and then you write another that is so brilliant

~Liz

Well, sorry everyone, but in part one (where all the clues are) it appears that when they return, the old amnesia is bound to kick in:

And in the end of WTWFO
(S P O I L E R S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S (if you haven't read WTWFO)


from the impromptu press conference:

And the ritual at the very end:

S P O I L E R S -if you haven't read the fic:
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
So CC if you can find a way to paint yourself out of the corner that is WTWFO you're an absolute absolute genius!

Because from what I can see, Lois and Clark return a little bit later than when they left, and while there may be a bit of "soul memory" left from their travels, they don't have a clue that they're going to create any kind of Utopia!

Personally, I like option 2, in fact, I think that I will use that in the story I'm working on....(tease...tease)

And Paul, I read the End of Eternity book, fascinating yet disturbing. And now I know exactly how to proceed with another aspect of the aforementioned fic.

Looking forward to the new paragraph. Please insert it on the boards,(hint hint)

James, 's advocate for all things temporal...

Again, glad to help with the locker, which I know you are going to resolve soon...

And at least now I know why I have been so sore lately...

Expecting the next part eagerly

Jose

Just a quick post before I rush out the door (my sister's in the early early stages of labor, and will probably deliver tomorrow morning. With all the family members to juggle, it was only just decided that I should go in to say hi now, go back home for the night, and then come back tomorrow).

1. Glad you guys liked the FH idea, Sara and TJ. Like I said, I doubt it'll happen (if I'd thought it was likely, I wouldn't have posted to spoil things), but I thought it'd be fun if it did.

2. Chris, I already said that I personally think their memories will have to be wiped, but I don't think you can say they definitely will. Just because that's what happened in the original timeline doesn't mean it's what has to happen the next time around. If they have some of their memories left, if they remember feeling close, some things may change when they get home. Not saying that's what will happen, but it's possible.

3. It only just occured to me to ask -- Where the heck did Hank and Petal get a burlap sack? They wouldn't have gone with one prepared, and there sure as heck wouldn't be any being produced in prehistoric Dakota. Did they go back to get it, did Tempus have it in his cave for some reason, or what?

Okay, gotta go now. Be back tonight, I think.

Paul

CC

WOW, WOW, WOW!

Tricia

Paul,
You asked about the burlap sack and I may have an answer, or at least a suggestion.

We know that the peacekeepers sent Tempus to Pre-Historic South Dakota but that they also supplied him with basic necessities.

Now, all the basic food stuff could have been left in burlap sacks just so Tempus won't have any chance of using any kind of buckle or zipper or anything to construct a new time machine.

Avia (starting to count-down the minutes till CC posts)

I'm late, I'm late for a very important date (with this feedback thread...)

CC, just want to let you know that I'm gushing along with everyone else. And, along with loving every word of this section, I absolutely adored that wonderful scene with L&C. But you knew that I would, didn't you?

Looking forward to the next. I said from the start that they'd have to have their memories wiped, and I still think so, but part of me I hopes not...

Kathy

This is just a quick reply, but I'll be back later to dig in.

First of all, thank you! Loving these comments and the give and take. Really wonderful.

Second, avia has it exactly right. In fact, I picked a burlap bag because it was as low-tech a container as I could imagine. Leave Tempus with a paper clip, a zipper, whatever, and you're just flirting with disaster.

Third, I said I could do it in one paragraph. Didn't quite make it. Also, what I thought would work, and be simpliest, had too much of a domino effect on everything that followed. So, I went with a variation of Paul's option two. And I really think it makes the piece much richer. You guys tell me, though.

I'll insert it into part 16, but also put it here:

Last thing. And this is for Chris.

What do you make of this, then?

Lois's pov WtWFO:

And from part 15:

Just saying... food for thought.

Thank you, everyone. More later. Part 17 is in the works.

CC

Food for thought indeed, CC! Very... interesting.

As for your addition, I like it. At first I thought that, given the crisis she's facing, the destruction of all they'd cared for and everything they knew, she'd say damn ethics and doing the right thing and whatever Superman would have done - these are lives going to be snuffed out. Just as if they'd never existed. And yet... and yet.

But would she be able to hold her head up high - would she be able to face Hank - knowing there was something she could have done? I wonder. So maybe just a thought of the temporal chaos which might result? After all... resurrecting the dead. In a way, Superman did it twice. (And, if you count the movie universe, and there's no reason at all why you should, he really did it there. ).

So maybe... the thought that messing about with time to that extent could create destruction even worse than that which Tempus's actions are already about to create? I don't know.


Wendy

I just started reading this yesterday and managed to get myself all caught up, although it wasn't difficult at all to keep my interest. I absolutely love it!

I don't want to be redundant so I will just point out one thing that I don't think has been said. There are obviously many things said about Utopia and its flaws. I agree with all of them, but one other thing has stuck out in my mind when reading all of this. When anyone refers to the founders, they say Lois Lane and Superman. Everything is about Superman. I can understand that, he's the hero, they were his ideals that everything is based on. But I don't think Clark would necessarily like that. He is always so adamant that Clark Kent is who he is and Superman isn't entirely real. I know he has a problem with the Superman craze because it puts pressure on him and he's so humble and modest, but I'm suprised he wasn't worried about the fact that he has been pushed to the side in favor of his 'creation'.

It's a magnificent story, don't get me wrong. I'm absolutely in love with it! (I'm kind of mad at myself for caving in and starting to read it before it was finished though, now I have to wait like everyone else ) This isn't even that important, just an observation I thought I'd point out.

I'm eagerly awaiting the rest of the story! You are amazing!

~Kristen

I like it. It does make it richer. Very cool.

OTOH, I agree with Wendy that it might be nice to mention damage to the timestream, too. Paradoxes resulting from the fact that she went back to that point because she'd seen the bones from later. The injunction against fixing your own mistakes. Something along those lines.

But then, adding in other concerns takes away from the focus on raising the dead, which is a pretty big deal. Huge temptation to a time traveller, and something generally considered to be Very Evil.

Also, obviously, different ideas/reasons work better for different people. We all have our own perspctives, and since it's your story, yours is the ones that counts most.

So... I don't know. It works quite well as it is. Might work a bit better if you threw in a nod to the other issues. An extra sentence or so between these two:

"An act that was so unethical as to be nearly unspeakable. Unthinkable."

OTOH, that does kind of lessen the impact her dilemma, doesn't it? Save Utopia by breaking one of the most fundamental ethical rules of her job, or let it all come apart when one deceptively simple action could solve everything? That is a very neat little insert, and adding in paradoxes and other rules would only confuse the issue and make the choice a little too easy.

Okay, then. What you have didn't immediately strike me as the best way to go, but, upon reflection, I'm thinking that it is. Sorry to give up one of my pet ideas (Go, little idea! Go run! Go play! You're free! <sniffle>), but I think what you've got is actually better. I was coming at it from a technical angle, but what you have is something that solves the issue while adding character depth. Go you!

Paul

I like the added part.

Only thing, Madge seems to be doing a lot of shifting uncomfortably.

It's the end of the world. Wouldn't you be fidgeting, too?

Paul

I'm going to be sorry when this over. And I'm so indebted to you all; I think after we wrap this up, we should get together at my house for a bbq. How does that sound? Because have I mentioned...? I love you people!

Ok. Here we go.

A major, recurring theme:

Of course I have no comment.

Ditto on the no comment. But so well put!

From Wendy and KathyB:
Love this! First of all, my apologies to any and all Robert Smiths. But when I was trying to think of the flatest, least interesting name a man could have, this was it. Though, given KathyB's brilliant Tempus-theories, he was very nearly Robert Brown. Robert Lane Brown, maybe? Kinda like it.

Speaking of brilliant theories, this folder was full of them!

Loooooove that. And you know, might try to work that in. In a few, very vague, toss away lines, because it's so good. Maybe just have a Revelation Bagel in the display case...

And, good heavens, this:

Who else thinks we're might be staring at the sequel? Not written by me, mind you. But one possible sequel inside one time loop written by our Hatman. Run with it, Paul! Like the wind! I'll BR. It'll be fun!!

That little time-travel glitch and Madge's unwillingness to raise the dead:

Ah. I thought of that Wendy. And I'm glad you did, too, since it gives me a chance to remark on this:

This made me smile ear to ear. Yes! In the Superman movie he did manipulate time to raise the dead, and when he did, it was Jor-el's voice telling him not to. In this piece, I've tried to draw as many lines between Madge and Jor-el as possible. Both of them watching over the end of their worlds, both linked to Clark, both burdened enormously.

Anyway, I liked the idea of Madge having her hands tied by ethics she just couldn't break. Also, I think this is what forever puts the Peacekeepers at disadvantage to Tempus. They may get wiser and better at handling him, but they are still good and ethical. They are handicapped in ways he is not.

Another really juicy one:

Welcome, Kristen! And this is so smart. I've really debated this back and forth.

For early Clark Kent, the one who arrives in Utopia, this aspect of being Superman/CK hasn't really happened. Since he's only been Supes the one time, he doesn't have a sense of how the Supes persona will take over. That Lois will come to love the caped hero, in preference to her working partner. The dicotomy isn't there yet. So, that's one thing.

Also, I think this issue is resolved for him later in his life, when he knows he really is both.

And last, if I can ramble on a bit more, the final element is the idea that the family has taken pains to keep something of the man off-limits. Superman and his legend belong to the world, but Clark Kent was still a father, a husband, a person. Perhaps by his wishes, part of who he really was has been kept private.

Try that on and see if that works, though. Your point is really valid.

Last things because I've talked all day.

LOL! And yes. That's a pretty predictable pattern now, isn't it?

She's got that 'The World's Ending and I Can't Quite Get Comfortable' thing happening. But I'll recheck that, rivka!

Thank you so much, everyone! I know I'm a broken record, but this is just the most fun ever. And I can't say how much I've appreciated your generous attention!

CC