Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Fun with Polls Could alt Clark kill himself?

A few different things have got me thinking...

What if alt Clark (or any Clark, really) didn't live happily ever after? What if he fell so far into depression he ended it all?

What if someone wrote a fic like this? What if it wasn't a Tank Ending? Would it be well recieved? Why or why not?

Give me the good the bad and the tomatoes. I can handle it. I'm curious to know what everyone thinks...

Sara

You're missing an option here, Sara. Where is:

Wendy

I chose

I'd read it, but I'd really hope for a sequel to undo his sad fate.

Although I strive to read every story I come across, absorb it, be emotionally involved with it; I prefer happy endings, something to smile about. Coz, after I read a story with unhappy or unpleasant endings, I have this urge to read some short sweet waffy story to balance something

Also, if I'm pressed for time, you know which stories I will skip

Just my thoughts....

~Ankit

I voted that I would read it, but I'd hope for a sequel. I'm not sure that this is the right answer, though. I'd rather that you managed to undo the tragedy within the one story.

Thing is, on the one hand, I don't want to read something that is going to be unremittingly sad and depressing. On the other, I don't really like the conventions of folcdom -- or the constraints we put on ourselves -- that say writing deathfics is taboo. Okay, that's putting it a bit strongly, but I think you get the idea.

If we know that a character is going to survive, then it takes away some of the tension that builds up in the story, and that's a shame.

So, on a personal level, I wouldn't want to see Alt Clark dead at the end of the story. On a wider level, I'd encourage you to write it, if that is what your muse is telling you to do.

Hope that makes sense.

Chris

I voted for 'no way'.

Clark (in any Universe) has too much respect for life in general to ever end a life - even his own. IMHO, it just isn't in his make up at all. Getting addicted, okay, but suicide?

That said, I can believe he'd consider it, for a moment, if he was really, really desperate.

I'd be curious to know how a writer would pull this off. Clark is invulnerable; how would he do it?? Even for humans it's not so easy. Yuck!! Just thinking about it makes my skin crawl. The solutions we humans pick clearly wouldn't work for Clark. I mean, he couldn't throw himself before a train, now could he?

The only thing I can come up with is flying towards the sun and getting burned to a crisp.

Again: Yuck!!!

I don't believe that it is in character for Clark in any universe to kill himself. I don't even believe he would use drugs as in one story he did the red kryptonite.

I also have to say I stay away from deathfics and I don't like Tank endings.

The simple fact that the gentle readers require writers to post extreme wham, and deathfic warnings at the beginning of their stories should give you a good idea as to how such things are accepted.

I'm not the purveyor of death and descruction as much as people may think, but, like Chris, I do regret the loss of dramatic tension that such warnings rob the story of.

That said, I too don't think that a Clark/Superman could actively commit sucide. It's well within his character to give his life to save another. And I think it's possible for him to get depressed enough to take greater risks and more dangerous chances because he doesn't care about himself that much. In that case he could be said to be 'courting' suicide without actually committing the act.

Tank (who thinks character deaths can work in stories but they must be logical and not just 'death for death's sake')

Well, there seem to be two questions here. One, do I believe it's in character for alt Clark to kill himself and, two, would I read deathfic.

To the first, I've always been a strong advocate of the theory that you can make a character do anything - and I do mean anything - even something that at first glance might seem to be out of character. You just have to provide the proper motivation for the action. If you do, the story will succeed. If you don't, it won't. Simple as that. Lead your readers with logic to where you want them to be and they'll happily follow. [Or most of them will. ] Throw a curveball at them without any warning or explanation as to why the character isn't acting like himself and they'll stop reading.

With SF, like LNC, it's easier to provide the motivation than with many other genres, because you have a wealth of the weird and wacky to call upon to get your character to where you want him/her to be.

It wasn't in character, after all, for Superman to go around vandalising parking meters or hand a child over to kidnappers - but the motivation was there in the fact that he'd been hypnotised. IOW, you can have your character act out of character and still have the story work, if there's a darn good reason why he's acting OOC. Provided the groundwork is done fully and well, the story should fly. [pardon the pun]

As to the second question: deathfic as a genre, generally, isn't the first thing I'd read. I've found most of it to be maudlin and depressing. And I do like a happy ending on my stories. You can drag my heroes through hell and back, but I like them to get all their problems sorted out by the last paragraph.

Having said that, deathfic written well can be very satisfying. Poignant rather than maudlin. I have more than a few deathfics in my favourite story collections. So I wouldn't discard one out of hand. I'd definitely give it a try first. And in your capable hands, Sarah, I'm sure it would work.


LabRat

Well, I went with "Sara's lost her mind completely" in the sense that she's crazy if she thinks I'll read any such thing I gotta have a happy ending, 'kay? Happily Ever After, not Give Up and Die.

However, that said, lots of people write stories that I wouldn't read and lots of those stories win Kerths, so... don't go by me.

PJ

I said other, because while I'd be interested, just to see that you get him to that edge, I'd still cringe a little to think he might go through with it or even succeed.

My guess is that, yeah he might get that depressed and try to, BUT maybe, just MAYBE someone ELSE would intervene. Something along the lines of "Mr. Wells pops in to kick the kryptonite away just as Clark slips into unconsciousness." only much more plausible.

Maybe?

TEEEEEEJ

No! No! No! Nooooooooo!

He could not, would not.
Not with a rock,
either green or red.
Not with the sun,
flying too close overhead.
Not underwater,
super-lungs drowned.
No kryptonite bullets,
no K-razor blades,
None these things, Sara!
None, in no way!

CC- who totally and entirely agrees with the whole 'proper motivation explains any action' theory. Absolutely. And that death fics can be great fics. Word. And that this fandom has a stranglehold on HEA stories and WHAM warnings, thereby limiting creativity. True.

We have many writers, many readers, many different styles for many different preferences. All good. I think there's an audience for anything, as there should be.

BUT...(/lower lip wobbles) I'm BRing this story! And if poor AltClark is headed over a cliff... well... well...

edit: You know, it belatedly occurs to me- after pitching this fit- maybe this applies to *another* story, Sara?? In which case, yeah, ok. Kill him. I dare ya.

And...okay...I've sat here staring at the screen for ten minutes now and I'm stumped. CC - what's a HEA story?

LabRat (who just knows she's gonna kick herself when CC tells her...)

PS - Okay, forget that. It just clicked. Duh. :rolleyes: Ow. <kick> Ow. <kick> Ow.

Why am I not surprised the author of Masques had a bit of trouble with those initials?

Hey! I gave them a HEA! It just took...a while...that's all! And for that I blame the Muse. /me points accusing finger under the desk...

Wasn't my fault. Oh no.

LabRat (who also blames her betas and the readers of these mbs, who kept coming up with new ways to add page count... See? Not my fault in any way, shape or form. I'm innocent! )

Hey, this could fit the Dr. Seuss challenge...

I had to pick that Sara has lost her mind. And my reasoning is much the same as Pam's.

I don't mind a little torture and mayhem (I've liked most of YConnell's stories!), but I need to have a happy ending.

James.

Well he did O-D in "Addicted".

That's very close to committing suicide.

TEEEEEEEJ

True, TJ - I'd see that as coming under the heading of Tank's depressed-Clark courting suicide without actually deliberately trying to end his life. I could find the kind of scenario Tank posits credible, if Alt-Clark had sufficient motivation for it.

But actual deliberate intent? I've thought about this a lot since last night and, while I originally said that I'd keep an open mind and let an author try to convince me, I don't think it would work for me. As Ursie said, Clarks of any universe have far too much respect for life to commit suicide intentionally.


Wendy

Two things: I don't know what HEA is, so would be grateful if someone could enlighten me.

Second: I wouldn't rule out the possibility of Alt-Clark being able to kill himself. True, I think he's more likely to neglect himself take more risks than he is to actively try to take his own life, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility.

If it were our Clark then I would say that no, he wouldn't think about it, and I'd have a hard time accepting the possibility. However, the two incarnations are actually very different; although they have the same core material to work with, their pasts and their presents have helped to shape their personalities.

Chris

I think it's happily ever after.

As for Alt-Clark being able to kill himself, I stand by what I said last night on IRC. This is *alt* Clark, not *our* Clark. He's had an unhappy life. His parens died right in front of him. Lana. Lois came, ruined his life, and then left him. He isn't necessarily the same Clark Kent as the Clark Kent we know and love. It's a nature vs. nurture thing here, and in this case, I would believe that nurture could win out. I think that is where i make my distinction. This Clark is completely different from the Clark on the show. We only got to meet Alt Clark twice, and didn't really get to know him all that well. I don't think i would have any problem with that premise. I also might not have had as much trouble as I did with a story like Butterfly Legacy if it had been alt Clark rather than our Clark for similar reasons.

Now, as to whether I would read teh story or not, I would have to say a resounding "absolutely not"! I don't like stories about death in any form. Not in movies not on TV not in stories. There is far too much death in the real world -- I don't need to spend my leisure time thinking about it! Give my happiness and sappy, waffy stories with lots of kissing any day!

- Laura

Well, I consider myself something of an expert on the matter of altClark and misery.

I voted that I'd read it with an open mind (can't remember the exact wording) because that's how I always try to approach a new story: I'm willing to be persuaded by the author, so long as he or she can make the premise work for me. However, that said, I don't actually believe that the altClark we saw in the series would commit suicide. My impression of him, despite his chequered background, was of a basically stable, well-grounded personality. Of course, that might have been partly Dean Cain's reluctance to portray his character with unmacho weaknesses. Even so, I can't think of a circumstance that would make him kill himself. If he thought he'd done wrong, for example, his response would be to stay alive in order to do penance. I, of course, made him a drug addict, but even I thought that was stretching things to the extreme limits of what I could get away with. His despair was overwhelming, but I just couldn't see him letting it consume him to the point where he'd want to stop living altogether. Even at his lowest, he knew he was doing wrong; he was ashamed to the point where he actually pretended it was someone else who was taking the drugs. Rather than commit suicide, therefore, I think the next step he could have taken would be to develop another personality. 'Bad Clark' would take the drugs, and 'Good Clark' would stand aside in abject disapproval. But all the time, the knowledge that taking his own life was just plain wrong at the most basic of levels would stop him from taking that final step.

However. I'm happy to be persuaded that I'm wrong.

Oh, and deathfics? Not keen; I much prefer a happy ending, but if you can give me some hope while killing off my favourite alien, I might just survive.

Yvonne