Lois & Clark Fanfic Message Boards
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#236189 02/22/06 08:07 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,090
lynnm Offline OP
Top Banana
OP Offline
Top Banana
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,090
Ooooh, haven't done this in ages!

Carol Malo posted a very interesting topic over in the off topic thread, asking when a person might determine it's time to stop writing. I've often wondered that myself, but my own answer always comes back to the fact that I can't not write. Trying to stop the stories and characters from coming into my head and the need to get them out on paper is akin to holding my breath. I can do it for so long before I start to turn blue.

But I know there are other reasons that people write, so I was thinking it might be interesting to see what some of them are. If you write - fanfiction, original fiction, poetry, anything - why do you do it?

And, as usual, any discussion would be even more interesting. wink

Lynn


You know that boy'd walk on water for you? Or he'd drown tryin'. -Perry White to Lois in Just Say Noah
#236190 02/22/06 10:15 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,293
Top Banana
Offline
Top Banana
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,293
I also write because it keeps me warm. There's nothing like a warm laptop on your knees to warm you up if the house is a bit chilly. laugh

I hesitated on the second question, because I've only recently starting writing material which may or may not be read. I answered 'probably, but it wouldn't be so much fun', but ask me again in five years time and you might get a different response.

I'm not sure whether I'm a natural writer - ie, someone who just *has* to write, come what way. I certainly enjoy it, and I love the fact that it's a hobby that I can do anywhere, any time. All I need is a pen and paper and I'm away.

Yvonne

#236191 02/22/06 10:52 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,627
Pulitzer
Offline
Pulitzer
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,627
I'm not a natural writer, but I love it as a form of creativity. I've written for years without anyone seeing some things, so whether or not anyone sees what I write isn't really an issue for me. I bounce around creatively. Right now I'm working on graphic design projects for graduate school which is kind of a necessity. Then hopefully I'll go back to painting, and maybe after that I'll cycle back to writing...

Jen


"Meg...who let you back in the house?" -Family Guy
#236192 02/22/06 11:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,445
Kerth
Offline
Kerth
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,445
I'm usually writing something - fanfic is what I do when I'm out of ideas or feeling blocked for the RPGs I write (which help to pay the bills).


Marcus L. Rowland
Forgotten Futures, The Scientific Romance Role Playing Game
#236193 02/22/06 12:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,206
RL Offline
Top Banana
Offline
Top Banana
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,206
I'm not a natural writer at all, unless you count writing technical documents in my job as an engineer. I like writing because it's kinda fun. I haven't had a lot of time to do so lately due to work and other stuff, but eventually I'd like to get back to it.

OTOH, if nobody read what I wrote, I voted that I probably wouldn't write anymore. If nobody enjoyed reading it, it's likely I wasn't any good at it, so I would likely find other things to do.


-- Roger

"The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself." -- Benjamin Franklin
#236194 02/22/06 02:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 378
Beat Reporter
Offline
Beat Reporter
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 378
I have to add here that I also write because it's the only creative outlet left to me. I have artistic longings, but I have NO artistic ability whatsoever - can barely draw a stick figure. I used to be a serious pianist with a lot of plans for music in the future, but after I smashed up my finger, that was over.

So, all I have left are words, because you can do that with a lousy finger, and I certainly write better than I draw! If I had no outlet, I'd have to start making macaroni necklaces or something, and that would be scary.


**~~**

Swoosh --->
#236195 02/22/06 03:38 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,454
Pulitzer
Offline
Pulitzer
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,454
Because I have to. Because I can't not write. Because it drives me absolutely crazy when I have lines of dialogue - or entire conversations - playing out inside my head and I can't get them down on screen. Or scenarios come to me and I know how the characters would react to them and I have to write them. When - and this relates to fanfiction more than original writing - I see an episode or a scene and I know there could be more to it, or there's unexplored consequences, and I feel as if I'm being driven insane until I actually explore them.

That's why I write.

Over the last year, I thought I'd pretty much come to the end of my writing career. I was out of inspiration and motivation for Lois and Clark. I tried original writing; got five chapters written and then dried up - not on inspiration, because I know where the rest of the novel will go, but on motivation. I had unfinished fanfics - 24 Hours, in particular. I would stare at a screen and no words would come. I finally forced myself back to writing with a couple of short fics. Then managed, with difficulty, to finish 24 Hours.

And then got hooked on another TV series and suddenly those scenes, those lines of dialogue, those entire conversations, those 'what if' scenarios are all playing out in my head again. I really do have voices in my head. For the first time in a very long time, if I can't get to a keyboard I'll write in longhand. And in about ten weeks I have written 34 stories. Most of them are single-part - anything between 1500 and 6000 words; but some are considerably longer, 70,000 words in one case.

So that's why I write - I couldn't possibly not write. It'd drive me insane. As for whether it matters if people read what I write - well, of course it's nice. But I started posting fic in a completely different fandom, where I knew no-one and no-one knew me. I was a complete unknown when I posted my first few stories. I'm not any more, and that's nice - but I'd still be writing even if my work hadn't turned out to be popular. Because the voices just won't shut up! goofy

Great poll, Lynn!


Wendy smile


Just a fly-by! *waves*
#236196 02/23/06 08:41 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 845
Features Writer
Offline
Features Writer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 845
I chose other for the first question and probably but it wouldnt be as funny as it is now.

My objective in writing is to combine my passion for literature, with my need to practice English as well as my obsession for Lois and Clark.

I am pretty comfortable with the way i am improving and with my style. I would feel sad if no one read my stories, but I'd still make them simply for escapism and self-construction.

I adore reading and I love writing. Theres nothing better than this. And if can, even with a limited vocab, i try express myself and tell my story. People liking it makes it a lot funnier of course.

MDL. laugh


"Work while you have the light. You are responsible for the talent that has been entrusted to you."
#236197 02/23/06 12:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,597
Merriwether
Offline
Merriwether
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,597
Question 2 was a tough one! I ultimately checked "Probably not" as for whether I'd write if no one were around to read it.

I need to qualify that, though, by saying that I don't think I'd write the story down on *paper/screen* if I weren't going to share it with anyone else. But I would continue to write in my head -- that's something I've been doing since I was a kid, well before I knew that there was any such thing as "fanfic". I can take the situations and the dialogue and play with them all I want inside my head ... but I think the only reason I take the time to physically write it up is so I can share it with other people. smile

Kathy

#236198 02/23/06 02:11 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 452
Beat Reporter
Offline
Beat Reporter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 452
The answers were pretty obvious for me: I can't not write, so I'd write whether anyone read it or not. But my "can't not write" is different from Wendy's. Wendy thought her writing career was over when
Quote
"I would stare at a screen and no words would come."
But that's my life as a writer. I see pictures and feel emotions that I have to translate into language. I never hear conversations in my head; there is no obliging muse who provides me with any words. I may see Lois and Clark, feel their emotions, and know what they are discussing, but I have to slowly, painfully pull every word out of my imagination as I translate vision into language. So I do an awful lot of staring at the screen with no words coming.

Nonetheless, however painful the writing is, I can't not do it. The ideas swell inside me, demanding expression, demanding that the characters and situations be birthed and brought to life. Just thinking about them is never enough, although that's what I do during those few months when I'm not actively writing.

Which brings me to question 2. Of course I would write if no one read my work, but that's impossible. Even if I were a lousy writer, my friends and family would obligingly read whatever I showed them. While lack of an audience wouldn't keep me from writing, for me, the presence of an audience is more than a "nice to have." The audience shapes my work. What do they already know? What do they expect? Will they understand this scientific situation, or will I have to explain it more? When have I given them enough to allow them to participate in the story, and when have I told them so much that they have nothing left to imagine?

Right now, I'm working with my GE, who has made a couple of comments like, "I don't know what you mean by this." If my writing were only for myself, I would ignore such points. But I write with an audience in mind because part of my need to write is an almost equally strong need to share what I write. That's probably why I almost always rewrite any point of confusion my BR or GE brings up. They're readers, and if they don't understand what I meant without my explaining it to them, neither will my other readers. That doesn't mean I only write to please my readers (in fact, I'm putting a warning on this story because not everyone will like it), but once I've decided what I'm writing, I write and edit with my readers in mind. After all, I can't share my writing if they don't get what I wrote. wink


Sheila Harper
Hopeless fan of a timeless love story

http://www.sheilaharper.com/
#236199 02/23/06 03:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 221
Hack from Nowheresville
Offline
Hack from Nowheresville
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 221
Eep, Question No. 1 was tough! I finally put that it's my escape, but it's so much more than a form of entertainment for me. It's what I love.

It's hard to pin down exactly why I write so much — I've been enamored with the entire process since I could put pencil to paper as a kid. I'm not trying to sound like one of those pompous, overbearing people we all love to hate when they say that writing is easy.

It's not.

But I think people can have a natural knack for it, and I'm one of those. Stringing words together to form the sentences that form stories just makes sense to me (if that makes sense). Inspiration may not always come easy, but the actual process does.

As a print journalism major at UK, and as an editor at our independent daily student-run newspaper, I write and edit news and feature stories, profiles, editorials, and a twice-monthy column. It's almost second nature to be hammering out deadline pieces at the keyboard. It's something I can't imagine not doing. And, as for Question No. 2, while reader feedback is always nice (wait, make that *incredible* from these boards, guys!), I'd do it anyway.


~ Crystal

"Not all those who wander are lost." — JRR Tolkien
#236200 02/23/06 07:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,797
T
TOC Offline
Nobel Peace Prize Winner
Offline
Nobel Peace Prize Winner
T
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,797
Well, I've been registered on these boards since August 2005, and yet I've posted no more than a single story here during all this time, a vignette at that. So why don't I write more?

But I do. I've written some 245 posts here since I became registered, most of them relatively lengthy ones. So why do I write comments on other people's stories, as well as various kinds of other musings, instead of writing stories of my own?

When I was a kid, I wasn't a natural writer at first, but I always loved stories. The best moments I had with my father was when he and I sat down and started to tell a story together: He started, I continued, he told the next part etcetera. The story just went on and on and became wilder and wilder, and I remember I would often laugh hysterically. When I was alone in my room, I would often tell myself stories, and my mother has told me that she sometimes stood outside my door, listening. But I never wrote the stories down, even when I became good at writing. I found that writing it actually killed the story, because it took such a long time to do it that the story stopped dead in its tracks as I tried to analyse it and translate it into letters and words and sentences and write it all down on paper. By the time I was done writing down the first part, the story refused to take flight any more, and I had to abandon it. I illustrated my stories instead, and I filled sketchpad after sketchpad with illustrations of the stories that never existed outside my own imagination.

My need to write didn't come from a wish to immortalize my stories, but from the darker and more troubling aspects of my childhood. Particularly the ominous and contradictory rules and commandments of religion. Growing up between two religious groups, one liberal and one fundamentalist, and being threatened by the fundamentalists that Jesus would come back any day or night now and bring his faithful ones to heaven and leave the rest behind, caused me a lot of anxiety and worry. And the problem was that I couldn't talk to anybody about my fears and doubts. If I had asked the fundamentalists, they would have been horrified beyond belief that I harboured such doubts at all, and I trembled at the very thought of what they might do to me if I let them see my doubts. And even trying to get reassurance from my liberal parents wouldn't really have solved anything. How could I know that my parents were right and my relatives were wrong? I once asked my mother if I had to believe in everything in the Bible, and she told me that I didn't have to do that. Well, that was a relief... until I realized that in order to be fully reassured, I would have to ask her exactly what parts of the Bible I had to believe in and what parts I could dismiss, and how I could tell the difference between them. And I knew, even as a young kid, that I couldn't ask my mother that, because she would not be able to answer, and she would be uncomfortable that I had even asked. In fact, I couldn't think of a single religious person that I could talk to seriously about religious questions, someone who wouldn't be upset and wouldn't ignore the intellectual challenge behind the questions and wouldn't try to turn me into a good Christian child who didn't ask such stupid questions. And as for trying to talk to the non-religious people I knew, well, they would just have laughed at me.

So I could talk to nobody, and that meant that I started thinking a lot. I became a thinking child. And while I always found it frustrating to try to hold down and write down the beautiful butterfly of a story (and tear rips in its wings) instead of letting it flitter freely, unfettered by paper and pen, wherever it wanted to, I found, by contrast, that it was often a very good thing to write down my thoughts about the things I was mulling over and trying to figure out. Writing these things down made it so much easier to sort out my own thoughts. And it was a good thing that writing it down took time, because that gave me more time to think and clarify my own thoughts and position on a question, if not necessarily to come up with an answer.

So I started writing down my thoughts, and found it a very satisfying way of thinking. I just did it, naturally and for my own sake, more and more. And the need to write stories - to write stories - which I'd never really had in the first place, disappeared even more.

But I'll confess two things. The first thing is that for years, I was telling myself "Spock stories", well, stories about Spock of Star Trek and the Enterprise, obviously. This man totally, totally fascinated when I first saw him on TV as a teenager, but I wanted him to break out of his shell, to become more confident in himself, and to be able to live and love. That never happened, so after a couple of years, I started telling my own stories of how it did happen. Well, you know, when a story that you want to read doesn't exist, then you have to write it yourself! Except that I never wrote down any of my Spock stories. Not a single one of them. Eventually, I had perfected the Spock stories to the point where Spock was such a marvel of altruism and god-like love (yes, I have to admit it), that the only place he could go from where I'd put him was into the arms of death, to sacrifice his life for the greater good of humanity and other sentient life forms of the universe! So I made him do that, and my only excuse is that I didn't resurrect him or let the rest of the sentient beings of the universe gain eternal life because of him! But as you may imagine, that was the end of the Spock stories for me.

As I said, I never wrote any of the Spock stories down. But now on to my second confession. Seven or eight years ago a Lois and Clark fan, whom I've since lost contact with, sent me a bunch of LNC fanfic stories, which I have similarly misplaced (it has definitely something to do with my getting a new computer since then). Well, I was sufficiently inspired by these stories that a Lois and Clark story of my own just came to me and lodged itself in my mind, and eventually, I decided to write it down. And all I can say about the result is.... Shudder! Groan! That written-down version of the beautiful story that had been floating around in my head came out so badly, so embarrassingly, that it killed the beautiful non-written version of it. Not only that. I was so embarrassed that I felt uncomfortable about the entire concept of Lois and Clark for a while, as if my own botched attempt to write a story about them had actually blighted them for me. And so it happened that while I could have become an official member of a Lois and Clark site in 1997 or '98, I didn't find it in myself to actually reach out to a site like this one until the summer of last year.

And that, I guess, pretty much sums what I write and what I don't write, and why I write what I write and don't write what I don't write. But, who knows. I guess I may still write another Lois and Clark story, and hopefully I won't feel too embarrassed about anything I might write about them and post here in the future.

Ann

#236201 02/24/06 02:45 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,293
Top Banana
Offline
Top Banana
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,293
Ann, thanks for that lovely picture of you and your father telling stories together. Made me feel all warm and fuzzy. smile

Sheila, you said:
Quote
I see pictures and feel emotions that I have to translate into language. I never hear conversations in my head; there is no obliging muse who provides me with any words. I may see Lois and Clark, feel their emotions, and know what they are discussing, but I have to slowly, painfully pull every word out of my imagination as I translate vision into language. So I do an awful lot of staring at the screen with no words coming.
You and me, both! I think this is what I meant by not being a natural writer - that, for me, it's an awful lot of hard work to produce the words I write down. I, too, don't have a movie playing in head. I have emotions, facial expressions, body language, and a broad sense of the journey I want my characters to make. The rest is extremely hard graft.

On the other hand, in response to the second question, you said:
Quote
If my writing were only for myself, I would ignore such points. But I write with an audience in mind because part of my need to write is an almost equally strong need to share what I write.
But when I say I'd write even if no-one reads my work, I don't mean that I write only for myself. I'm still writing for an audience, even if that audience never actually gets the pleasure of seeing what I wrote for them. laugh I'm almost certain I wouldn't write a word if I started out on the assumption that I was the only person who'd read my stories. I'm telling a story, after all.

Yvonne

#236202 02/24/06 03:21 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,380
Likes: 1
Nan Offline
Kerth
Offline
Kerth
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,380
Likes: 1
Why do I write? Because I like to. When I don't write, I find myself going crazy with the possibilities in my head. I used to read to my brother and sister when I was little, and I wrote my first pathetic story when I was about 9 or 10. (Got teased to death by my siblings later when they found it, too. It scared me from showing my work to anyone for years.) We used to make up stories between us when we were on car trips, because it was a lot more fun than Twenty Questions. Much later, I discovered my sister also wrote -- she'd just been more clever about hiding her efforts than I was. We wrote our first story together when we were in our early 30s, and kept it up for years, but we only read the results to our kids. It wasn't until I discovered the Fanfic Archive in late 1999 that I actually contemplated letting anyone else see my work. My daughter bet me that I could write as well as the stories written there and challenged me to try. The rest is history.

If no one read a word of what I write, would I still write?

Yes, but it wouldn't be as much fun, anymore. I'm a storyteller from way back. I wrote stuff for years that (thankfully) no one else ever saw. I locked it up in a footlocker and kept the key on a ring where no snoopy siblings could ever get hold of it after the first embarrassing experience, but I didn't stop writing. I also burned a lot of my early stuff, because I never wanted anyone to ever find and read it. (Brr!) Now that I've gotten over my phobia of letting others see my work, however, I love to post something that entertains other people. If it doesn't, I'm really disappointed. If for some reason people didn't want to read anymore, I'd go back to writing just for myself when time permitted, but I wouldn't stop.

Nan


Earth is the insane asylum for the universe.
#236203 02/24/06 07:10 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 484
Beat Reporter
Offline
Beat Reporter
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 484
I'm enjoying this thread very much. I've been intrigued by what other people have to say. More than that, though, it has made me think.

For me, there is no one reason why I write.

I don't write to be lauded and applauded -- at least I don't think I do -- although I do like being told that someone, somewhere, has enjoyed something that I have written. (Believe me, if I were writing Lois and Clark for the plaudits and the Kerths, I would have given up long since as, year on year, I watched other people walk away with those lovely, shiny lumps of perspex. wink Last year, when I finally did win a Kerth, it seemed oddly anticlimactic.)

Having said that, I don't think I could write fiction just for myself. If I write something, it is in the hope that somebody might actually read it.

I've enjoyed one or two television series where no fandom has ever developed. In at least one case, I dreamed up a story; I even jotted notes down on paper. But I never finished anything. In fact, I barely even started.

My laziness is showing through. wink But, seriously, I've sometimes wondered where the point would be in writing down readerless stories when I can simply lie in bed, close my eyes and let them play out in my head during that in-between time between closing my eyes and falling asleep. Not translating the images in my head into words on paper or on screen is a great way of saving both time and effort!

Yes, for me, writing can be an effort. In fact, for most of the time it is.

But sometimes it isn't. Some Kind Of Angel just flowed and wouldn't stop, and writing it was an amazing experience. It was also almost frightening.

Where were my ideas coming from? They'd leap out and hijack me when I was least expecting it. Quite honestly, there were times when I felt that I wasn't writing the story at all but that it was writing itself, out of my control. I was just a conduit.

But that's not what usually happens. Usually when I have an idea it comes out in frustrating fits and starts. I have to go through endless pains and frustrations to wrestle my ideas onto the page.

Over the years, I've learned that, if the words won't come, I can't force them. I've tried. And tried. And tried. And now I know better now than to bust a gut trying. If a story wants to come, it will come, but only when it's good and ready.

When a story does burst forth, though... I feel wonderful. I love the words, the feel of a sentence coming together, the parts of a whole that meld together to create something more, or subtly different, than I'd intended. I love the way that I can be amazed at something that I have written.

I don't mean that in any kind of egotistical way. I'm not talking about how good I think a story is. I'm talking about how the whole can be so different from what I'd originally planned. I'm talking about how an idea will take on a life of its own, taking me on a magical mystery tour before it reaches a conclusion that might or might not be the one I'd envisaged at the outset.

I love the buzz of creativity I get when I'm writing.

I said that writing SKOA was almost frightening, and so it was, but it was frightening in a good way. I've felt a little of that 'conduit' feeling with every story I've ever written. I've just never felt it quite so forcefully, so overpoweringly, before.

I said earlier that I didn't think I would write a story if there wasn't somebody out there to read it, and I think that's almost certainly true. For fiction, I need an audience.

However, I do write one thing that I don't expect -- or want -- anyone to read, just for the sheer pleasure it gives me.

About two years ago, I started keeping a diary. I was going off on a Big Adventure, and I wanted to keep a record of it. For me, writing down my experience, or how I felt when I did something or saw something, proved to be as satisfying as taking photographs. In fact, sometimes more so. I found myself writing about the power of landscape, the wonderful knot in my stomach when I feel the glory of nature around me. How it felt to have one perfect moment of happiness, of tranquility.

After my adventure was over, I realised that I liked my diary for its own sake and that I didn't want to give it up. So I've kept writing. I've poured my heart into that diary. I've written about grief, about how it feels. I've written about my highs and lows, my hopes and dreams, and the mundane little details of everyday life.

In fact, I've bared my soul in that book. (Actually, those books. My collection is growing. wink )

I daresay I'll plunder some of the emotions , experiences and memories I've captured for use in stories at some future date.

But the diary, itself... It's a very personal thing.

Maybe in thirty, forty, or fifty years time, when I die, I'll leave my diary for someone in the dim and distant future to read, an artifact of social history. Until then, though, it's mine, and mine alone.

H'm. Maybe I am writing my diary / journal for an audience, after all. I just never realised. If I do leave my diary to some archive somewhere, I won't be around to see anyone read it, or to get feedback, so I'm certainly not writing it for glory or plaudits or...

(You know, I've just realised something. This post isn't a story, but I've put down a thought I hadn't known I had before I started typing. There's the manifestation of that buzz of creativity I was talking about.)

I love the feel of a good pen in my hand... I love the flow of handwriting that spills across a page... I love the act of editing on paper... I love the physical craft of writing.

I love writing. I have done, ever since I was a child. And the good times, the wonderful highs that it can bring, make all the frustrations and all the dry periods bearable.

Why do I write?

Because I love it, warts and all. I was wrong at the beginning of this post, when I said there was no one reason why I write.

I write because I love to write. Simple as that.

Chris

#236204 02/24/06 07:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,090
lynnm Offline OP
Top Banana
OP Offline
Top Banana
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,090
Wow!!

See, I got what I wished for. This is a fascinating discussion. I'm enjoying it immensely, so thanks for chiming in, and please keep talking.

I hope you all noticed that you could choose more than one reason for question #1. Sorry I didn't bring that to everyone's attention more firmly than just in the poll. I myself write for more than one reason, so I wanted people to have some options.

Too, Sheila brought up an excellent point about writing for an audience. Supposing a situation in which you would write something but no one would ever see your work is kind of like asking that question "If a tree fell in the forest but no one was there to hear it, would it make a sound?" Since writing is a form of communication, and it takes a minimum of two parties for any sort of communication to occur, it only makes sense that a written story is intended to be read. Even if it is only personal friends, family members, yourself in your old age - even keeping a journal implies looking back at some point in the future - putting the words on paper rather than keeping them in your head signifies an intent to share a story. Like Kathy said, if no one were going to read the stories, you might as well just keep running them in your own mind. wink

That being said, I think the intention of question #2 was to force us all to ask ourselves if we write for pleasure or if we write for feedback (positive or negative, but hopefully positive). Writing is such a difficult thing. I think most of us struggle to get the images and emotions we have in our heads and hearts out in such a way that other people can see and/or feel what we want them to. If you don't enjoy the process more than you struggle with it, I don't think you would continue to do it unless it was because of feedback. You might go to a job you hated simply because you continued to get a paycheck. But if you were doing something that you absolutely loved and were faced with a paycut, you might not jump ship so quickly.

I often think that I could survive being stranded on a deserted island as long as I had an unlimited supply of paper and pens. I think I could sufficiently entertain myself by writing down stories and rereading them. In such a case, the audience would only be myself and, in theory, the paper and pen part would be unnecessary. But my brain would get so muddled I'd need to get it all down on paper to keep things straight. That's one reason I write. I have so many things going on upstairs, I need to get some of them out simply so I can make some space for more. wink

Lynn


You know that boy'd walk on water for you? Or he'd drown tryin'. -Perry White to Lois in Just Say Noah
#236205 02/24/06 08:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,445
Kerth
Offline
Kerth
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,445
Quote
Originally posted by Krissie:
I've enjoyed one or two television series where no fandom has ever developed. In at least one case, I dreamed up a story; I even jotted notes down on paper. But I never finished anything. In fact, I barely even started.
This is where crossovers pay off, and why I write a lot of crossovers with fairly obscure books, shows and films; it lets me write about the obscure stuff but still get my stories read, and hopefully gets more people interested in the obscure stuff. For example I've written one Buffy / Modesty Blaise crossover, and the first few parts of another - despite there being eight or nine Modesty Blaise books, three films, and a load of comics, all still fairly popular, there was no fanfic at all until I wrote it. Hopefully others will write some now I've broken the ice.


Marcus L. Rowland
Forgotten Futures, The Scientific Romance Role Playing Game
#236206 02/24/06 09:05 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 9,362
Boards Chief Administrator Emeritus
Nobel Peace Prize Winner
Offline
Boards Chief Administrator Emeritus
Nobel Peace Prize Winner
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 9,362
Quote
hen I can simply lie in bed, close my eyes and let them play out in my head during that in-between time between closing my eyes and falling asleep.
Ooooooh. You do that, too, do you? I thought it was just me. goofy Nothing better than settling down with a good mind story before sleep.

I've written dozens of Stargate fanfic that way. And, yes, never had the inclination to write them down or post them. I'd have to rein them in then and make the plots work and do all the hard work. laugh

Whereas, in my head, if I hit something which doesn't work I just rewind and change it.

LabRat smile



Athos: If you'd told us what you were doing, we might have been able to plan this properly.
Aramis: Yes, sorry.
Athos: No, no, by all means, let's keep things suicidal.


The Musketeers
#236207 02/24/06 10:05 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,597
Merriwether
Offline
Merriwether
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,597
Quote
Ooooooh. You do that, too, do you? I thought it was just me. Nothing better than settling down with a good mind story before sleep.
I'm right there with you both. I can't tell you how many stories I've written in my head when I should have been sleeping. Of course, the downside is when I've spent all that time constructing the right sentences and wonderful dialogue, but I don't get it written down before I lose the perfect phrases. wink

But I agree that sometimes it's better to just keep a story in your mind for awhile ... that way you can savor it and rewind it as many times as you want. smile

Kathy (loving this thread)

#236208 02/24/06 10:48 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,761
A
Pulitzer
Offline
Pulitzer
A
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,761
Now there's a good question...

I think I'm of creative nature. I love creating stories. I can remember myself thinking up various scenarios since I was little, whether to keep me from getting bored, or to lull myself to sleep; scenarios that ranged from 'what I'm going to do tomorrow' to 'what my life's gonna be when I grow up'. I don't think I wrote, back then, but I remember I once drew a comic with Donald and Daisy. I was about 5.

A couple of times I tried to keep a diary, but it didn't work. I think my first 'organized' attempt at writing was writing a few poems when I was 9. I had a friend help me with those sometimes, but it was me who actually did most of the work goofy They were quite good, I believe. For a ten-year-old's standards.

When I got a computer (I was around 10), I was into soap-operas. Unable to wait for the next episode to come up, I would write dialogues of my own on how things could turn out. Soon, I started writing about heroes I had invented myself as well, but only the dialogues and some 'directions' (i.e. 'frowns', 'walks to the door' etc.); I could see the scene playing in my head, but I didn't care about describing the ambient or what they looked like. Everything was in my head in perfect detail, I just... didn't care enough to write it down, I guess.

At 12, I wrote a fairy-tale in this fashion, and we played it at my theater class. We were kids 9-12 years old, so the performance was rather lacking (on the others' behalf; I did fine laugh ) but it was a quite decent play.

Later, I stopped writing so manically, spending hours typing in the computer as I had previously been. But I'd occasionally write about an idea that sprang to mind - by then, I had outgrown the 'strictly dialogue' syndrom - and once I tried writing something I later found out was called 'A Harry Potter fanfic, starring Mary Sue' goofy

All the while, I worked many stories in my mind - about my life and my future, but also continuations of shows I watched, a good part of them L&C. When I found out about the existence of fanfic (a few months before I turned 15), I started writing them down. And posting them.

Like Yvonne and Sheila, I'm not the natural writer who just sits down and the words flow like a river. I sometimes think I could work better as a director, or script-writer; I have visuals in my head, I can picture everything to the tiniest detail yet can't bring myself to put it down to words. I tried to put it down to sketches and pencil drawings, but I can't convey 'reality' in my drawings. Everything I draw is flat, one-dimensional and lacking in detail. The picture is clear in my head, but my hand won't cooperate frown When I was little, I consumed pages and pages in drawings. I still make a habit of it (most often, on my desk during class; I can't sit completely still during classes where I don't have to take notes), but now that I grow up I'm also trying for quality; and, seeing how I don't seem able to achieve the quality I want, it's not that much of an outlet.

Writing was easier to resort to. I had the means and, well, maybe not really the talent, but the ability. And I've loved reading since I can remember myself, so writing came out as an extension of that; therefore, I liked it too. Besides, as I was mostly dialogue-orientated for a long time, it was quite easy. Moving on to book-like writing came naturally, altough I had a hard time learning to write introspection (and I'm still struggling on descriptions). I'm getting better with practice, though, and being very pleased with something I wrote happens to me more and more often smile

Lately, I find myself so overwhelmed with (Harry Potter) ideas that, when I don't have time to write, I'm feeling miserable. For the first time in my life, I found myself working my stories in longhand during a boring class - especially scenes that are to come 'later' but are stuck in my head. I don't like writing manually because it's much harder to edit - I want to be able to edit everything over and over, because I'm a perfectionist. But sometimes I just need to let it out.

So writing for me is:

- Self-expression. I create my stories in my head, but when I want to see them fleshed out, I have no other means but to write them.
- Self-gratification. I enjoy writing. Even though it's not unusual for me to get stuck on something that doesn't come out the way I want it, I enjoy the process of writing and to see what it results to. I don't know whether it became an enjoyment because it's the only way I can express myself, or if I had it in me; but the fact remains. And when I feel inspired and the words are flowing out freely, I feel like I'm in heaven.
- Entertainment. I have fun creating my stories. They keep me busy and give me a way to experience things I'd love to but can't, for one reason or the other.
- Because I can't not write. I'm not sure I feel this way, but, pondering my 'writing career' as I did above, I realized that my need to create appeared early; if writing is the expression of it, I can't suppress it. And since I was 9, I'm always writing something or the other; even when I could claim to be on hiatus, I'll try to write something, maybe something original, because I want to get out of it. I don't know whether I like writing, but I can tell you for sure I don't like not writing.

One more thing; I do want recognition for my efforts. And I'd like to become a famous writer, or at least a popular fanfic writer. But that's not why I write. I mean, I'd also like to become a famous pianist, but I haven't touched the piano since last June laugh

About the second question... I recently found out my answer is 'absolutely yes':

I had spent months working on a Harry Potter fic. I had also given it to a couple of RL friends to read it and give me their opinions. It's a long fic I very much enjoyed writing and am quite satisfied with how it's turned out.
I started posting it a little more than a month ago, while I had already started working on the sequel. The review number was disappointing; the first review came days later, and the for first couple of parts (i.e. more than two weeks) I had only one reviewing reader. But I didn't feel bad about it. I'd have continued posting it anyway - and of course I wouldn't give up on the sequel. I enjoyed writing it to no end. I still do, in fact. But, you know, I enjoy the result too. There are stories of mine I read over and over, just because I like them. This is one of them.

On the other hand, I also like receiving feedback. It makes my day to know somebody has taken the time to read my story, especially when they liked it smile I've found I'm more likely to share a fanfic than an original story, though. Strangely enough, even when an RL friend had only a vague idea of the fandom I was writing about, I still preferred giving them one of the fics I wrote to read, and not something original. I don't know why.

I think that what I wrote doesn't make much sense, not to mention I think I might have contradicted myself a couple of times. To tell you the truth, I'm not 100% sure why I write; I just tried to guess, here. In any case, thanks for the poll, Lynn; it's been fascinating reading all the responses and trying to figure out what mine is.

See ya,
AnnaBtG. smile

P.S.: Count me in the crowd that still creates mind-stories to be lulled to sleep. I think I'll never grow out of it laugh


What we've got here is failure to communicate...
#236209 02/24/06 11:40 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,293
Top Banana
Offline
Top Banana
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,293
Count me as another who tells herself stories when she's waiting to fall asleep. Often, I replay bits of fanfics or episodes and then take them in the direction I want them to go in.

And Lynn, I've had that same desert island thought, too. We have a radio program over here called Desert Island Disks, where guests get to choose the eight records they'd like to have with them if they got stranded on a desert island. They also get to choose a luxury, and I've often thought mine would be an unlimited supply of paper and pens. The craft, creativity and escapism of writing would keep me happy for a long time.

Yvonne

#236210 02/24/06 03:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 9,362
Boards Chief Administrator Emeritus
Nobel Peace Prize Winner
Offline
Boards Chief Administrator Emeritus
Nobel Peace Prize Winner
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 9,362
Quote
I'm right there with you both. I can't tell you how many stories I've written in my head when I should have been sleeping. Of course, the downside is when I've spent all that time constructing the right sentences and wonderful dialogue, but I don't get it written down before I lose the perfect phrases.
Oh no, that's a different thing, Kathy. I've been there, too, having bits of my current WIP pop into my head just as I'm falling asleep and either having to trust to the fact that I'll remember it all in the morning, when I can get it down (guess how many times I don't? laugh ) or get up out of bed and jot it down there and then because I know it will be gone by morning.

What I was talking about earlier though is completely different. Those stories I never intend to write down, ever. It's not like writing a story I'm intending to write, snippets of scenes or portions of dialogue.

It's more like having a movie running in my head. I put the characters of my favourite TV show into a situation and then watch how they deal with it. It's like switching a VCR on in my head and letting it run. I usually fall asleep before I get to the end of the 'movie' and pick it up where I left off the previous night. Often, I play around with all the various permutations of how the characters might react or how events might fall out. Hours of entertainment. laugh


LabRat smile



Athos: If you'd told us what you were doing, we might have been able to plan this properly.
Aramis: Yes, sorry.
Athos: No, no, by all means, let's keep things suicidal.


The Musketeers
#236211 02/24/06 03:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 452
Beat Reporter
Offline
Beat Reporter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 452
I often put myself to sleep at night imagining a scene. Usually, though, I'm imagining something I'm working on or starting to dream the next thing I write, but what I'm doing is shortening the writing process by creating a movie in my head. Since I don't have the stress of having to find words for the scene, I can work through it dozens of times, trying to figure out what the characters are saying to each other and just enjoying the process.

My luxury item would be unlimited paper and pens, too, Yvonne. In fact, that's what I take with me on the houseboat for a week--an empty notebook, a copy of the last 20 pages I've written, and several pens. However difficult it is to translate a completely visual experience into language, I love it. I'm perfectly happy sitting in the shade on the deck of our boat, writing on a story, working on backstory or character profiles, editing my rough draft. It's hard, but I love it. Kind of like my daily 4-mile walk in the summer. Four miles is tiring for me, but it's pleasurable to use my body the way it was designed to be used, and I think writing uses my mind the way it was made to work.


Sheila Harper
Hopeless fan of a timeless love story

http://www.sheilaharper.com/
#236212 02/25/06 03:37 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 378
Beat Reporter
Offline
Beat Reporter
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 378
These "mental stories" so many of you spoke of struck a chord with me. Ever since I was really young, before going to sleep, I would turn out the lights and make up stories in my head. It relaxed me, and I enjoyed it. I still do it sometimes when I'm having a hard time falling asleep.

However, I made the unfortunate choice to tell one of my cousins about this when I think I was maybe 7 or 8...and she laughed at me. I am so relieved to hear that I'm not the only person on this planet who does that sort of thing smile


**~~**

Swoosh --->
#236213 02/25/06 06:33 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,454
Pulitzer
Offline
Pulitzer
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,454
Yup, count me in too on those mental stories - been doing it ever since I was a little kid. Very few of those end up as fanfic, mostly because lots of them are little more than Mary Sues. goofy

I think it's pretty normal, really!


Wendy smile


Just a fly-by! *waves*
#236214 02/25/06 10:14 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 9,362
Boards Chief Administrator Emeritus
Nobel Peace Prize Winner
Offline
Boards Chief Administrator Emeritus
Nobel Peace Prize Winner
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 9,362
Quote
mostly because lots of them are little more than Mary Sues.
LOL, Wendy. I've been trying to explain to myself the difference between fanfic and mind stories since my last post and this pretty much nails it for me.

I definitely think they're more personal fantasies than fanfic. On paper they wouldn't make a lick of sense and quite often I'll bend characterisation etc. to suit myself. As I never intend to write these stories I don't have to play by the normal rules and can pretty much do as I please.

LabRat smile



Athos: If you'd told us what you were doing, we might have been able to plan this properly.
Aramis: Yes, sorry.
Athos: No, no, by all means, let's keep things suicidal.


The Musketeers
#236215 02/27/06 04:10 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,644
C
Pulitzer
Offline
Pulitzer
C
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,644
Just popped in to check how the poll was going, and I haven't read through everyone's responses yet, but I wanted to say -- for the second question, I voted that I would probably keep writing, but it wouldn't be as much fun. And that's not exactly it. I will keep on making up stories; I can't avoid that, really. There's always that "what if" machine churning away; most of the stuff isn't useful, but every once in a while I get something I like enough to pursue.

With an appreciative audience waiting, I'll do the hard work to get all the plot details worked out and write the transitions between scenes. Without one... I'd probably only write "the good parts" -- the scenes that show up demanding to be written. I'd write those, but not worry too much about continuing the story or transitioning between scenes; I know all that stuff, so why bore myself by repeating it?

At any rate, that's how I used to write, before I had an audience. I'd create elaborate landscapes and lots of characters, and have lots of thrilling plots... and very little of it got written down, beyond notes and lists and "the good parts". (And houseplans. For some reason I really liked drawing houseplans goofy ) Maybe it'd be different now, since I've had all this experience and have a higher standard to shoot for. But I think having an audience makes a big difference in how hard I work at telling a story. They keep me from taking shortcuts, I guess.

I don't know if that makes me a "writer" by your standards, Lynn. But I know I am a story-teller, and writing is my preferred medium. And I figure that's good enough to go on with.

PJ

#236216 02/27/06 07:21 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 653
Likes: 5
A
Columnist
Offline
Columnist
A
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 653
Likes: 5
Well, now that I'm here, I've been poking around and found this poll and thought it was quite interesting.

My answer to the first question was: for self-gratification, to fill a need, for entertainment and because I can't NOT write.

It's really a combintion of all of those things. Sometimes I do it just for fun, to play with an idea or character or situation. Sometimes I do it because I have this idea and I can't believe no one else has done it and I just have to get it down on paper so I can read it. I definitely enjoy it (most of the time, anyway) so I get pleasure from it. And although there are times I go months without writing for whatever reason (usually because I'm blocked or frustrated) eventually I always wind up writing again.

As for the second question, I would absolutely (and have quite frequently) write stories purely for myself with no intention of sharing them with others. Sometimes when I finish I send them to select friends I think might enjoy them. But it's not at all unusual for me to have stories or parts of stories on my harddrive for years without publishing them in some form or sharing them with others.

I've been writing for as long as I can remember. When I was six, I dragged everything out of the hall closet, put in a desk, a chair and a stack of paper, and hung a sign on the door that said "Annie's Writing Room. Do not disturb." When I was eleven I decided I wanted to be a journalist. At twelve I wrote my first full-length novel. (A novel, btw, which is HYSTERICAL to read now. Also illustrated with photos cut from teen magazines. Very professional. <G>) At fifteen I started my high school's newspaper. Etc, etc.

All my life I've been a writer. Throughout all the changes in my life, that is the one thing that has stayed constant.

I really hope that someday I will have some published novels. I have a bunch of crime/romance plots running around in my head, including one I'm working on writing now. And for years I've been toying with the idea of writing a fictionalized memoir. I have bits and pieces of it written.

But if no one ever reads my stories, if no company ever publishes them, I'm sure I'll keep writing. Because I don't think I know how to quit.


Being a reporter is as much a diagnosis as a job description. ~Anna Quindlen
#236217 03/09/06 07:50 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 217
Hack from Nowheresville
Offline
Hack from Nowheresville
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 217
There wasn't a "For money" option, though I suppose fame and applause come close. I've wanted to get paid for writing for a while and have finally achieved that. Last month I submitted two stories to "True Confessions" magazine. This month I queried them about a feature article (non-fiction). They requested the feature article and last Friday I received a contract in the mail for one of the stories. "True Confessions" isn't a magazine I normally read, but I did my homework and learned that they accept unsolicited manuscripts. I bought a few copies, studies them and then bit the bullet and sent something in.

I enjoy writing and do a lot of writing that will never be submitted anywhere. It's just putting my thoughts and emotions on paper. But I also enjoy doing research on something, pulling together all the tiny little pieces and weaving a coherent article from it.

Great poll!


Marilyn
Check out our blog at www.writingplayground.blogspot.com
#236218 03/14/06 03:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 964
Features Writer
Offline
Features Writer
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 964
Lois & Clark/fanfiction was the genre that helped me discover my inner writing. Lois & Clark helped me discover my love for journalism. I'd also enjoyed reading the newspaper as a kid (my younger sister just thought I was trying to be like my dad goofy ) but after watching LnC, then I knew why.

I HATED writing growing up. Then I took a Creative Writing course in college, and realized there was so much more to it.

I basically write because it's in my blood. My grandfather whom I never met (because he died when my dad was 16) was a writer. In fact, he wrote a story about his experience in World War II that made it on Playhouse 90.

I write because my muse won't shut up! I have dialoges and scenes playing throughout my head every day. Lots of plot ideas come to me while I'm by myself...while I'm relaxed. I too have those nightime movies, but those usually turn into the solution to a problem with a certain scene I'm thinking about, or a future plot line I'd like to see.

If no one read my work, I'd be fine with it, because I write because it's theraputic. My writing has helped me through many rough spots in my life. It helped me deal with feeling alone, and not having someone to love me. Now that I do have someone to love it's enriched my writing even more, and I can convey that same emotion for my characters.

I also have to admit that I write for the recognition, and applause. I'd love to be nominated for a Kerth, and win one someday...but if that never happens, I'm okay with it as well.

My writing also extends into my SOSL&C newsletter and Lord of the Rings fanzine I produce. I love working on the layout of a publication, writing articles, and working with a staff of friends. I thrive off the stress of publication deadlines, and such. laugh

#236219 03/23/06 03:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 69
Freelance Reporter
Offline
Freelance Reporter
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 69
I didn't realize we could pick more than one reason in Q1 of the poll. Writing is an escape, a creative release, a part of who I am... it just is.

Would I write w/o an audience? Well, I can say yes, because I started writing fanfic at age 9 or so. I didn't know it had a name. Didn't know I was writing a Mary Sue. But it just had to be written down!

I do a lot of mental work, too, when going to sleep. I revist a favorite scene I've written, I let a new fanfic scene play out, I sometimes have to haul out of bed to write the dang thing down, in at least a skeletal form, so I can get to sleep if an idea is "really good." Often it doesn't seem that good in the morning, but I can't take the chance of missing that one great idea that was great.

I wish I had more time to actually write these days. Grading papers from by biology college seniors puts me in a sour writing mood! And the kids keep me busy. When I'm not insanely busy, I'm often totally exhausted. But even when life is too crazy to let me get the words down on paper, I continue to work on the stories in my head. I consider this to be part of the writing process, but it isn't as rewarding as actually getting the words down.

How would I survive the mundane minutes of life without mind stories and fanfic? I hope I never have to find out!

The one thing I wish I were good at that I am not is creating my own sandbox to play in. I play well in other people's sandboxes... creating my own from scratch has never worked to my satisfaction... the few ideas I did have never turned into much, even after much thought. It's frustrating. But I'm working on being grateful for the toys people have in THEIR sandboxes. wink

Jackie


Jackie N.
jacalynsue@zoominternet.net
#236220 07/25/13 12:26 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 41
A
Blogger
Offline
Blogger
A
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 41
I have no choice but to write, it's who I am. It's also a way to show what I CAN do & not have people focus so much on what I CAN'T do.

#236221 07/25/13 12:16 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 9,509
Nobel Peace Prize Winner
Offline
Nobel Peace Prize Winner
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 9,509
Quote
Originally posted by Nan:
It wasn't until I discovered the Fanfic Archive in late 1999 that I actually contemplated letting anyone else see my work. My daughter bet me that I could write as well as the stories written there and challenged me to try. The rest is history.
Nan, please thank your daughter for the rest of us. razz ) For most of the almost 9 months I was posting ML, I would only get occasional feedback ( wave Joan, Laurach, and Michael), but even so, it was more FDK than I'd ever received for my writing before. Now, I'm addicted. If it dried up, I'd miss it, but I'd still write.

Not only do I write for the entertainment value, I find it fun, but also because it gives me complete control (or the appearance of complete control*) over some aspect of my life. It's also a wonderful feeling to put "The End" to something (rare that that feeling is now-a-days), to see definite progress, and to have a sense of accomplishment. While I love my kids, they are a decades long WIP, and I would be in a padded room if the only sense of accomplishment I received was them going to bed the *first* time I told them to do so. (This still hasn't happened, in case you're wondering.)

* My characters actually have control on where my stories go. I try to nudge them in the correct direction, but they insist that the story has to go their way or no way, they throw up writer's blocks until I give in to them. wallbash

Quote
TOC wrote:
So I started writing down my thoughts, and found it a very satisfying way of thinking. I just did it, naturally and for my own sake, more and more. And the need to write stories - to write stories - which I'd never really had in the first place, disappeared even more.
As a Classics Major, I envy anyone who can tell a story, which hasn't been written down. The orator or storyteller is a lost skill in recent generations. Congratulations for keeping it alive. laugh

Quote
Krissie Wrote:
I've sometimes wondered where the point would be in writing down readerless stories when I can simply lie in bed, close my eyes and let them play out in my head during that in-between time between closing my eyes and falling asleep. Not translating the images in my head into words on paper or on screen is a great way of saving both time and effort!
Me, too! I often can't keep my eyes open at my desk, and go and lie down and work through the next scene in my head (and my dreams). When I was writing 'Missing Lois', I often went to sleep having Clark calling to Lois in my mind (or vice versa) to see where it would lead. Glad to see I'm not the only crazy one out there. wink It is disappointing though when I go to write it down the next day and the ideas I generated at this restful point were suddenly gone, or didn't come out sounding anywhere as good. Many of plot tangles, though, have been solved by stepping away from the computer or lying down to sleep.


VirginiaR.
"On the long road, take small steps." -- Jor-el, "The Foundling"
---
"clearly there is a lack of understanding between those two... he speaks Lunkheadanian and she Stubbornanian" -- chelo.
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  KSaraSara 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5