Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Lois & Clark Fanfic FDK: She's...

Two words... TOGOM fics. That's why I've loved writing TOGOM fics so much: it's exploring Lois's reaction to Clark's death. And do you want to count the number of TOGOM fics out there?

Seriously, though, I'm getting a distinct sense of deja-vu about this discussion. It's also kind of off the topic of the story, and I'm sure that Terry would like to receive feedback on his lovely, touching, poignant and heart-rending story. I liked it very much indeed, Terry.


Wendy

This comment is not directed at anyone in particular, just a bit of rambling.

While I would have liked to have seen Clark's reaction when Lois was supposedly killed in the ElectroWhammy... I don't particularly like *real* Lois or Clark deathfics.

Terry I did like yours because I felt like Clark was a little reckless to do what he did to Lois by freezing her, without seeming to really try anything else first. So I enjoyed your take on what a loss Lois would have been to everyone if she had died because of that. And I enjoyed what a hero you portrayed her as.

If I'm going to read a deathfic, I prefer that it has a happy ending. I've written a Lois deathfic myself in Remember Me, but it was one that could be fixed and had a happy ending - and also proved how much Clark needed her (therefore how important she was) and what lengths he was willing to go to in order to get her back.

I'll admit that I haven't written a Clark deathfic yet. Mainly because I'm not sure how I'd bring him back, and I refuse to write a story where one of them dies permanently - it's just not my style. But I've written plenty of stories where I put Clark in mortal danger. In one story I dang well near killed him. Lois thought she had lost him and I explored her angst a little bit there.

But anyway, I digress, this is Terry's fdk thread and I feel a little bad because this isn't actual fdk, so...

Terry, I apologize and this is the last comment I personally will make... I did read your story, I did cry, and I do think you have a wonderful talent for writing. It was sad, but it was beautiful.

Thanks!

(And I too love that vid - She's - Rach? Are you out there? Do you hear me? COME BACK!!!)

If the Lois deathfics were like the TOGOM deathfics, so that Lois didn't actually die in those stories, you wouldn't hear a single word of complaint from me, Wendy.

But I'll say this. Even though I haven't read Terry's story and likely won't, kudos to Terry for being brave enough to make Lois die as a direct consequence of Clark's actions. Indeed, she died because he deliberately used his superpowers on her. And Lois agreed to let him do that to her because she wanted to help Clark. It certainly makes Clark's grief more interesting if Lois sacrificed her life for him, and he was the one who deliberately put her life in danger, deliberately exposed her to horrible danger, and then was unable to save her.

Ann

Possibly off topic, but what the heck. If it is moved elsewhere (or deleted) I completely understand. Kudos, to Terry and CC Malo for provoking such interesting dialogue.

Ann writes:
All this leads to, I think, an LNC fanon with a somewhat exaggerated compassion for Clark and a lack of compassion for Lois. Because I am a feminist, this is something that pains and bothers me.
--

Hmm. I wouldn't say these are necessarily mutually exclusive. I mentioned the "prevalent" view of Clark as more vulnerable than Lois, but this is from my own --admitedly short-- experience in the fandom. Fandoms are strange things--I can cite something from my last fandom, X-files, as an example of how things become interpreted in ways that may or may not correlate with the series. In the show, one of the characters never voices a certain ethnic identification, but it appears with surprising (to me) frequency in a plethora of fic, discussions, etc. Someone mentioned the fanon vs canon thing and yes, I think that might explain some of it.

However, I personally (and this is where I might run into some trouble, this is my humble opinion), see Clark as being more emotionally vulnerable. He's 'suffered' less than Lois (who comes from a not so nice family and has been in not so nice relationships, etc) and because of this, doesn't have the emotional protection that she has developed. My "compassion" or sympathy for Clark stems from the recognition that he's more liable to reel from the damage than Lois. However, that doesn't mean I lack compassion for her. And it certainly doesn't mean that I'm indifferent to her suffering.

In fact, sympathy to Clark is not without a bit of condescention. 'Poor little Clark who doesn't know the way of the world, who hasn't been broken in yet,' so to speak. I can't call this an anti-feminist position, since I don't feel the same towards Lois which means, if any thing, that I see her as "superior" to Clark (I am biased, but I doubt most of you don't have a marked preference). But neither is it a feminist position either, if that's how you want to think of things, since it does not put them on the same level.

In the end though, my opinion has nothing to do with the characters' gender, but rather with wordliness. I think I'll leave it here, but I don't think I'm the only one whose "sympathetic" view of Clark is without an automatic devaluation of Lois.
I am more than happy to continue this discussion elsewhere, gender is an subject of particular interest to me.

Terry, beautiful story. Very, very realistic and well-done.



We need more stories like this one.

Terry, what a wonderfully well written story this is. Oh, the angst that Clark must feel to know he is responsible for Lois' death.

Even with Lois' video, I kind of wondered why Superman wasn't at least charged with involuntary manslaughter. Somehow I don't think a real district attorney would be so forgiving.

I also appreciate the warning that this was a deathfic. I just recently read another very good story on this board that had no warning. I thought it was a comedy and then wham, Superman is dead. (So there are fics where Superman dies from kryptonite.) There was nothing building up to it in the story, either.

I'm going to be bold and say that if you don't want to read a story because it's a deathfic, then don't make a post that you aren't going to read it - just don't read it and let it be. I hope I don't upset anyone by saying that, but I figure I'll get major flack over it!

I for one have always seen Clark as emotionally stronger than Lois. Yes, Clark is very vulnerable and shows his emotions. That's not the same as being emotionally strong or emotionally weak. (I speak as a nurse with many years of psychiatric experience.)

Please note that some of the feedback here is off topic and there was another thread started about that. I'm probably also guilty, but I hope not too much.

Terry, this was a moving and wonderful story! Congrats...

Oh man, you convey tragedy without an ounce of melodrama. I so envy you that, and really admire your voice.

I *loved* Jimmy's choked-up vow of support for Clark. Bill Henderson's clenched fist. Clark counting the days, minutes since Lois. Such a poignant, effective... gut-kick.

And most especially, because it felt so completely real:

Wonderful.

CC

Felt I'd better read the story, given I'd commented.

I was quite surprised. Clark Killed Lois!!

And yet that was a possibile outcome of the risk he took in freezing her in the actual episode. Have to say that I had thought of this episode as an example to use in one of my comments above to show that Clark's feelings for Lois aren't as profound in the earlier part of the show as fanfic makes them out to be (well most fanfic ) I remembered when I first saw that episode how shocked I was by his willingness to play Russian roulette with her life.

Perhaps Superman was coldly rationale at that point, and saw it as purely a numbers thing - one life for two.

He has a horrible choice to make at the point when he freezes Lois (let's leave aside the surprsing fact that neither he nor Lois could think of another way out of the dilemma) He has to choose between the parents he loves and the woman he loves. He chooses his parents, and with that decision he lets us know the shallowness of his love for Lois. As well, he doesn't even have the compasssion to tell her he's Clark at this point. He still holds out on her.

Of course he's guilt ridden afterward, in this story, haunted by his memories of Lois. Terry writes these bits very movingly, I was quite convinced that there really was a ghost. And genuiinely convinced that Clark felt remorse for killing Lois.

And yet, I kept thinking - he's like the guy in the joke who kills his parents and then throws himself on the mercy of the court because he's an orphan.

Like others, I was surprised that Superman wasn't charged with manslaughter - maybe it's true that some people are above the law.

I was a bit discomforted by Lois's video before she died - it seemed a bit over the top. Sadly, too, I was reminded of those tragic martyr's videos we've seen all too often on the news, and that too made me squirm.

Anyway - it was an interesting read and reminded me of what I'd forgotten about the show - that in S1 and 2, Clark wasn't as much in love with Lois as I sometimes like to think. I'm wondering, if that was your real purpose, Terry, to remind us of that, and if so - well done!

c. (really should stick to my rule about not reading deathfic -am now depressed)

edit: (just saw CC Aiken's post and I too liked that bit she quoted about the cateloguing - it showed us that rational Clark, letting us know that he would move on - it was a good way to put it. CC's quote also remindeed me that I was touched by Henderson and Jimmy's grief - understated, and so we knew it was real)

Oh, this is interesting! Because while we both liked the same quote, Carol, we read it differently. (Surprise!! )

To me, that look into Clark's head is a wonderful, smart way to show his deep grief. It's like he's not really there. These are events he is watching from behind a glass. Perry, Jimmy, and Bill are all free to show their feelings; something he can't even begin to do because it's too impossible

Also, when he goes home afterwards and just sits in the chair doing nothing-- same thing. I like that so much better than if he'd thrown himself to the ground, wept, wailed, primal cry, etc.

Really cool, Terry. I'm a fan.

CC

After great pain, a formal feeling comes...


Yes! This is exactly what I meant when I said the story was restrained. Clark's grief is restrained, private, and that's exactly in character for him, I think. He's in that "formal feeling" stage of grief, which I find much more touching than wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I much prefer it when an author leaves me room to find my own emotional response to a story, as Terry does here. I'm left feeling somewhat uncomfortable - and unmoved - by stories that ram grief or any other strong emotion down the readers' throats. Usually I finish those completely dry-eyed and feeling like a cold-hearted snake because I haven't gone through a box of tissues.

Terry took things we all know - flashbacks from the show, bits and pieces of Clark's characterization, and Lois's...and Henderson's, and Perry's, and Jimmy's, etc., and wove them together beautifully without ever once telling his readers exactly how they should feel about them. Some people seem to think that Clark *should* feel guilty, should maybe even be prosecuted as Superman. Others seem to think that his own guilt and loss are punishment enough, or that Lois's tape and assertion that the freezing was her choice is enough to exonerate him. This, to me, is the sign of a good story.

Caroline

lol - true

c. (who can't get over the big fact: Clark killed her! How heartless is that?
But that's another matter of interpretation too: what matters more - his killing her or the beauty of his remorse?)

I don't think that Clark should necessarily feel guilty over what happened - it was really Lois' choice.

I agree that it would be terrible for Superman to be charged with manslaughter but I was thinking more about what would really happen. Terry, have you or would think of doing an alternate version where he is charged with involuntary manslaughter. No, I don't mean change this story. I just think it might be interesting to see a second story. I have actually written a story where poor Clark ends up in prison - I'll post it eventually, but I'd love to see your take on it.

Would the courts really go after someone in this situation? Even if he wasn't Superman? As for why he did it, I think at least he wasn't thinking of failure. I can't see the heartlessness in the gravity of the situation. He's too involved for it to be heartless. An example:

This makes me think that he went into the situation knowing he'd fail. I think that makes all the difference. He says above he doesn't want to do it, but in the abscence of another route, I think he simply thought that he wouldn't fail (he says "risk" her life, so he's hesitant to put her in danger--I'm not sure if its the same as "I don't want her to die"--the latter carries some possibility of failure).

That said I love this quote, its really brings in the bittersweetness of the situation. How tragic that his double identity should stand as an obstacle in this moment (and how that mirrors that it be the cause, however indirectly to her death). Can the knowledge that she loves him change anything? In this situation it doesn't seem to. It opens up a lot of other questions too. Is is better that he knew she loved him? Or is that like salt on the wound for the rest of his days?

Yes, they would in some instances. Think about the cases where a non-inebriated driver kills someone in a car accident. Usually nothing would be done, but if they could prove somehow that the action was somehow intentional or reckless, or other unusual circumstances then yes, they would be charged with involuntary manslaughter.

Actually given the case in this story, Superman could actually be charged with voluntary manslaughter and dare I say some type of lower murder charge (The different types are called different things in different states. For example - some states call a planned murder premeditated while other would say first degree murder.)

Hi Terry,

I cried...I admit it.. I cried when I read your story.

It was so well written and so powerful, I felt what Clark was feeling.

To see everyone else's pain and know that he was the cause, to carry that knowledge was heart wrenching.

And this:

Ah, pure genius!!!!!

Thank you for sharing it and keep up the good work.

FinLi

on the subject of criminal charges: I did a bit of reasearch on this issue when I was writing about Corban's death. The likely charge would be manslaughter (criminal negligence). It would be very odd for the DA's office to overlook that. (that's not to say they wouldn't ) Then, it would be for the judge (and jury if present) to decide, of course.

Again, that's a really interesting quote becuase it cuts to the heart of the issue.

Does it show a CK/S who is rationalizing after the fact? Regardless of how he feels, he did the deed. So while he is telling himself one thing about how he felt about Lois, his *actions* indicate subconscioulsy he felt differently. I think, because Terry has written about Clark's feelings so beautifully, we're tempted to forget about the horror of what Clark actually did do.

How much more honest would Clark have been if he had said instead:
"I didn’t want to freeze her. I didn’t want to risk her life, but I had to save my parents’ lives. But, idiot I am, I let her convince me."?

Also, I'm not sure I buy the "she made me do it, it's not my fault" argument - probably because I don't want to admit that CK/S is so weak-willed (unethical?) that he would accept her offer. But, in the show, he did accept.

You ask what else Clark could have done? Well, maybe take a bullet for his parents and Lois? True, it's Lois that the bad guy wants dead. But up the offer of a dead Superman and any crook's heart would beat a tad faster. Get some Kryptonite, etc.

Surely that's what a gentleman would have done? He wouldn't have let the woman he supposedly loves make the grand sacrifice. That that thought doesn't automatically appear to have crossed his mind makes me wonder how deep his feelings for Lois really went. Isn't that our intsinctive reaction when someone we love is threatened? "Take me, instead."

It's interesting that it was Lois who was prepared to make the sacrifice and not Superman. To him, deep down, Lois is expendable. Sure, he'll miss her, but...

Terry does well to remind romantics like me who've forgotten the darkness of Clark Kent in that episode.

c.

It seems that if I remember correctly that the episode alluded to something to the effect of them getting Superman instead, but they weren't interested.

CC: I'm curious about your story about Corben - as in Metallo? What was the story and who got charged? Interesting.

Again, Terry, great story...

Just checked the script, no mention of Superman. It was Nigel who wanted Lois dead - Mazik didn't care one way or another about killing Lois. Mazik had promised to release M & J when Clark stole the jewels, but then he reneged on his promise and asked Clark for more.

c.

Wow. That was one heck of a fic. I'm usually not into deathfics, but it was so well-written. It was actually quite interesting to see what would have happened had the freezing planned not worked....what everyone's reactions would be. You really nailed everything!

Jen

As another famous character once said, "Hokey smoke, Bullwinkle!"

When I posted this piece, I expected some negative feedback about the subject matter. In fact, I would have been disappointed had some people not gotten upset about yet another Lois deathfic. As I have stated before, I hate death in all its forms. I do not celebrate it. When I go to funerals, I am unable to pass before the open coffin to say goodbye to the departed, and I've taken some flak because of that.

So I understand that there are different points of view and different opinions about deathfics on this site. But I did not write this to mirror anything in our society. I did not write this because I secretly hate Lois. I did not write this because I hate women.

I wrote this piece because the brilliant video "She's" touched my heart and my spirit. If you've watched the video, you've seen grief contained within a barrier which will never be breached, grief which was caused by Clark's own actions. That was the feeling I was trying to get across, and I chose to show the collateral fallout from Lois's death also, because the death of one person never occurs in a vacuum. It always affects many others.

Also, I did not dream up the whole "freeze Lois and fool the bad guys" scenario. If I had, maybe some of the charges leveled against me would hold water. But this is from the show! I agree, it was a dumb idea from any reasonable, real-life point of view, but the writers did this to make a dramatic statement that Lois loved Clark more than Superman, and that Clark loved Lois enough to let her do something he thought was nuts. Yes, I think they could have come up with any number of things which would have been better (sounds like a plot untwist waiting to happen, doesn't it?) but they didn't, at least not in the episode. That's what I was working with and working from, not from some deep-seated vitriol in my soul directed against women.

Those who posted to tell me only that they didn't read because of the warning, thank you. That's what the warning was for.

Those of you who quoted passages you liked or described parts that moved you, thank you. It goes without saying that such feedback is like a warm hug to a writer.

Those who posted to let me know they didn't like it, thank you. My preferences, my likes, my dislikes, and my cultural prejudices aren't identical to yours, and they should not be. I respect our differences and celebrate them, because without them the vast majority of high-quality writing on this site (and others like it) would not exist.

Now for some Q & A (my personal opinion, not to be taken as absolute truth).

Should Superman have frozen Lois in the show? Yes, because it advanced the dramatic and romantic story lines.

Should he have frozen her in real life? No, because it was incredibly dangerous.

Did Clark love his parents more than he loved Lois? No. You don't show love to a person by denying that person the opportunity to put his or her life on the line for you. If Clark had told Lois, "No, I won't let you help, I won't let you risk your life," wouldn't he have been guilty of trying to control her? Besides, his first reaction when Jason demanded Lois's body was to put her on a plane and have her fly far, far away. Besides, if we think Clark should have taken a bullet for Lois, why can't Lois take a bullet for Clark or for his parents?

The upshot of this is simple. This is a story inspired by a video which explores what-might-have-been. It is presented here for your enjoyment, and while many of the questions raised in these posts are not only valid but worthy of discussion, I suggest that we keep to the subject here, which is this story.

Did you like it? Let me know. Did you hate it? Let me know. Did you even read it? If not, tell me that, and be sure to let me know why (because that's perfectly valid), but don't bust me or the story without reading it first. That kind of response is far closer to a flame than a constructive comment. And while I understand that no one can take in any input without running it through his or her own personal cultural filter, please be willing to admit that you have such a filter. Your opinions are worth reading and considering, but please be willing to admit that they're your opinions. Not everyone thinks the same thing or the same way (which is good and proper and right), so let's allow others to show their differences without ascribing evil motives to anyone.

Thanks for letting me vent. And thanks for caring enough to read and comment.