Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Lois & Clark Fanfic FDK: Faustian Bargain 20/20

Interesting discussion.

Personally, having been raised in a liberal, secular household, I don't believe in waiting for marriage to have sex. Whether or not Clark and Lois decide to have sex before they're married doesn't matter to me as long as their decision is explained in a way that makes sense to me.

On the show, I had the feeling they just glossed over it. We had Clark confessing to Lois that he was a "very patient man" and then--bam!--we have them in the newsroom, talking about hardly being able to wait for their wedding night, and fade to black.

How did they get there? Now that the subject was out in the open, and the physical aspect of their relationship had been discussed, why did they decide that they were going to wait?

I thought it was very good post Alcyone. And you are right simply saying that Clark or Lois wouldn’t do this, or that, aren’t really constructive and I’m quite guilty of it. I try to intersperse my feedback with a IMO here and there and I hope I don’t limit the range an authors of expression. Still, I’ve gotten the impression that most authors wants to hear what did clash with your preconceptions and why.

It’s just that sometimes authors come so close to my fantasy of the perfect Lois and Clark fic and then they do something that really jars with how I picture them. But then again that happens all the time in the show too. ( I've given this a lot of thought and I realize that instead of dancing around my feelings for you, I have to deal with them head on and verbalize my emotions... I can’t believe someone got paid to write this. )

Casual sex generally have greater angst potential yes. And as we were saying in the other forum it’s exactly because Lois makes Clark compromises his ideals that Faustian becomes such a strong premise. And much of his aggressive frustration also makes sense. Getting so close but still no cookie. It small wonder he tries to take his pound of flesh out of her or is it into her?


Well I do, all people have limit. Very rarely does my emotions run away with me but when it did it simply felt like a careening train. I could probably have snapped myself out of it but I had no desire to do so. One of the things that make me like LCTNAOS, but not the other Superman incarnations, is that Clark is pictured as someone with a serious depth of feelings. He is not a robot doing good because it’s the good thing to do. He is simply a nice guy that has the power to alleviate the suffering of mankind, something that he, with his enhanced senses never can pretend to not know about. His godlike powers makes him take everything in the world personal and controlling his emotions is not something that is automatic, so I can totally buy him being swept away by love. It’s not about how strong your character is it’s about how deeply you are touched.

Not IME and opinion, giving in too your feelings have little to do with reason. If you still can can do check and balances you haven’t gotten bitten bad enough.

You think so? I’m rather doubtful. IME those who save themselves for marriage are setting themselves up for some serious hit and miss action.

I thought that was very beautifully said, Ann like the rest of your post. I don't really have the cosmic angle. But I also find Clark's dogged desire to marry her romantic.
A man who want to get hitched at the earliest opportunity isn't kidding around. Then again chances are that he is some weirdo.

I owe a huge debt to Rivka who gently nudged me earlier this week to check the PG boards because I'd received some FDK on my story. So I wrote my thank you and figured the topic would then slip back into obscurity and only be visited by me in a fit of self-doubt days/weeks/months from now when I needed a boost.

I know for a fact that I'm not the first author to write about Lois and Clark engaging in pre-marital sex. I doubt that I'm even the first one to write about them engaging in a no-strings-attached arrangement, so I can only sit in open-mouthed amazement that this story has generated this kind of debate. It's humbling, it's exciting and it makes me actually chortle when I check the boards and see what's been said.

I know I'm going to sound wishy-washy, but I have to agree with both sides of the "waiting for marriage" issue. I was raised in the most ultra-conservative of homes. I was taught in no uncertain terms that sex was to be saved only for marriage. It was heavily implied by my religion, my parents and pretty much everyone around me that good little girls DIDN'T and that any girl who gave in to temptation was damaged goods. I believed it (and to some degree, still do). So, even though I had a few encounters with my high school boyfriend in the back seat of his car, I maintained my "virtue" more through peer pressure and the fear of being one of those girls everyone whispered about than any real moral conviction. Cut to me at age 22, still a virgin and curious beyond all belief about what the hell I was probably missing out on. So after a drunken party one night I went home with a guy I really liked but knew I didn't love. I still have mixed feelings about the whole thing - would that I had waited six more freakin' months because that's when I met my husband. Did he wait for me? No. (To be fair, he was 31 at the time).

We had been dating for about four months and he was constantly teasing me about being such a goody-two shoes. He would call me on a daily basis to see what the "righteous scale" was. If it was anything higher than a six he'd tell me to call him back when I got to a two. It was a joke - and it was a very fun part of our relationship. Until the night that I actually DID get to about a 1 (or lower) on the scale and was full-on ready to sleep with him. He backed off (totally pissing me off and confusing me in the process) because our relationship meant more than just sex to him. Much, much later I would love him even more for that. At the time I was really angry. How dare he pursue me for months and then not follow through?

My point (did I have one?) is that, yes, I did regret sleeping with someone else before Mark. When we actually did finally "give in" to the attraction between us it was completely spontaneous and totally unexpected and better than any fanfic ever could be. I've never regretted not waiting until we were married to sleep with Mark (especially that first time). I wouldn't tell our son that, at least, not until he's much older and married himself. Neither would I want my son to think that pre-marital sex is okay - in general I don't think it is.

But it sure is fun to write about. Especially in the case of Lois and Clark where, while it may not happen within the bonds of holy matrimony, it still *means* something beyond just scratching an itch or gratifying a base desire. In Faustian, Clark entered into the agreement because he thought it might be what Lois needed to "ease" into loving him. Lois couldn't acknowledge to herself that it meant more, but she sure got upset when Clark reminded her that it wasn't supposed to be real. Because it was real to her. It meant something beyond just sex. If it didn't, the PG version would have been really short indeed.

In the case of them deciding to wait at the end of Virtually Destroyed, I think it was because they were supposed to get married in a few more weeks. How could they (or we) have known of the horrors the writers were about to throw at us?

You're totally right! There were only four episodes between VD (that is a somewhat unfortunate acronym, given the subject matter of the episode. Heh.) and INPY. However, if we look at the time that passed between the airing of the two eps, there were nearly two months in between. If it was supposed to be a month on the show, I can buy your argument. I guess I could even buy two months.

I don't know.... I still would have liked more information about their motivation. Prior to VD, I just never got the impression that they were the type to wait. Clark was all ready to give into Lois in PML and, of course, we know that Lois had that encounter with Claude, so it wasn't something she had decided on principle. On the other hand, she wanted to wait with Lex, but I think that had more to do with the fact that she knew, deep down, that she didn't want to be with him. And, not to mention, it would have royally pissed off the audience if Lois had done the nasty with Luthor.

For what it's worth, this ain't a new argument I remember being a FOLC as third season was in progress, and I remember long involved discussions (pre-VD) of what sort of experience Clark might have previously had. There were good arguments on all sides. After VD made the "very patient man" thing canon, then we started working on what his reasons might have been, since that was left wide open.

There was speculation that they slept together after OW (in previous eps, they'd made a point to end it with Clark flying off; in that one, they didn't). And tons of us thought they'd surely made love before he left for NK (fluttering curtain scene, after exchanging informal wedding vows). Then the writers came along and messed it up again

I'm kind of ambivalent about the issue these days. In real life, I think sex is a sacred thing and should be practiced only within marriage. I don't generally read nfic these days for non-morally related reasons. But L&C aren't real people, they don't exist in the real world, and they're eternally destined to get married sooner or later, so... I'm not especially worried about which order they do things in. My favorite genre of fanfic is the kind where they start a romantic relationship, and with a lot of authors that means lovemaking, either stated or implied. Some of my favorites, in fact, involve pre-marital love-making. I think it's cause it's got that little bit of extra spice of the forbidden.

PJ

I always got the impression, though it may be heavily influenced by fanon, that Lois and Clark waited because they were both a bit skittish. I never thought they waited for moral reasons, or even to intensify or preserve the passion. Clark, as we learn in VD, is a bit unsure of the whole intimacy thing because he's different. And Lois is equally as skittish because she's only known "federal disasters," so she likely thinks she's jinxed or no good or something. For me, the two of them agreeing to wait was more about making sure it was something special that they could look forward to. Kind of like Christmas (or whichever holiday suits you)--sure, it's a rush to open all your presents early, but isn't there something a touch more magical waiting for Christmas morning?

Who knows, maybe they realized that their nervousness would be inversely proportional to the level of passion between them--as in, the more the build up to passion, the less they'd think about being nervous.

And, bringing the point back to Faustian...

I, too, was a little worried when I first saw the idea in its original thread. I knew buddy sex for Lois and Clark would be a hard premise to buy into, but I was thrilled to see that Sue would be handling it, as I'd really enjoyed her writing and command of the characters in her previous stories. I knew it would be done well (and somehow that was still underestimating you, Sue!). What made it believable for me was exactly what Sue explained: Lois and Clark both "said" it was just buddy sex, but they both knew (whether consciously or subconsciously) that it was far more than that.

While I'm here, I might as well say again how much I loved this story, Sue!

Sara (who is getting far too good at this procrastinating thing...)

Hi Sue, I read your story and for me it's really well written!The story has to me made curious because it was strange for me a buddy sex like this between Lois and Clark! I was skeptical on this! And maybe, now I read all the chapters, I'm still! I think Lois and Clark are so strong and deep and optimally described in their motivations in your ff, but for me they are a little out of charachter! Lois would not have never made a pact of this sort with Clark and with anyone else and Clark would not have never made sex with she without to say before that he was Superman. Ok....but this is the canon....without the canon, without the lines that all of us know, these Lois and Clark are very interesting and complex and real! By the way, there are many aspects maintained in their charachters like the strong feeling and the fear to tell much to each other!
For me in the serie Lois and Clark waited for sex for 2 reasons: first the production of the tv-show and the young audiance (only after the marriage there are sex's scenes or references), two: their love is big and incredible, nearly sacred, they think it will be more special after the marriage!!!