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Chapter 116
Chapter 117
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Carol

Carol I almost cried for both parts. I love the pics. You know what even if he was sick he was still the best looking baby around. I cried looking at the pics.

Great parts can't wait until the next one.

I snorted along with Lois when Clark explained his love for Lana... :rolleyes:

Ok, so love often is undefinable / indescribable, etc.. but Clark sounds more and more like a broken record....

I might be wrong, but I think that what Clark feels for Lana is more gratitude than love... she was there for him at a time when he was feeling the most lonely and different.. while his powers were developing. So there's companionship and there's attraction, but is that enough? Lois and Clark have known each other for less but they've been through more ups and downs than Lana and Clark...


Anyways, I guess he is free to love whoever he wishes to ...

I was just wondering how would things progress. Let's say Clark breaks up with Lois after the 5-year mark, and gets together with Lana... then realizes.. oh no..he wants to be with Lois... I don't think Lois would take him back or Clark would go back even if he realizes he's in love with her,,,, coz inspite of the realization, Lois would still be sort-of a second choice... so I guess what I'm saying is that would Clark be able to choose Lois without 'chosing' Lana first..??

Loving this story... even though Clark frustrates and irritates me sometimes.

The whole baby stuff was heart wrenching

Michael

This last section made me feel sad, but probably for a different reason than most people. It's hard for me to think of these characters as Lois and Clark because the one thing that is true in every incarnation of L&C is that they always choose each other, and a Clark who doesn't bond almost instantly with Lois just isn't ... Clark. And yet, here we have this Clark who has lived with Lois for almost 3 years, had two children with her, loves her dearly, but doesn't feel any romantic attachment to her. You know, guys, if he doesn't feel that way after all this time, it's just not going to happen. It's not like Lana is on his mind and in his thoughts, stopping feelings for Lois from developing. And that kind of love isn't something that you can force. It's a feeling, not something you can choose to do or not.

OTOH, Lois makes the stupidest statement I have ever heard: As recently as the 40s and 50s, Americans were still regularly marrying for reasons other than passionate love. I can give several examples from my family in which necessity and friendship rather than passionate love was involved, but that didn't make them "friends with benefits." They were husband and wife as long as both of them lived because they chose to make that commitment. It isn't the feeling that makes the relationship; it's the commitment.

However, Lois has put Clark in a no-win situation. She doesn't want him to stay (i.e. make the commitment) if he isn't "in love with" her, but she's made it clear it's his fault if he leaves. Worse, she's already rejected the third option: his staying because he loves his family and has decided to be husband and father for as long as he lives. No, that can't be a choice because she and he might grow to resent each other. And Clark buys into that same stupid idea: that because he had different feelings for Lana, his feelings for Lois are no good. Argh! I'm feeling really frustrated right now.

I'm sad that little Nate's condition kept getting worse so now he has to have surgery, but I'm hoping that will fix things so he can start growing properly. I'm kind of confused about when Lois is needing to have her mind taken off Nate's surgery because the hardest time for me was always during the hours of surgery themselves, and that doesn't sound like when this scene takes place. However, it does allow for a chance for L&C to get physically closer again, and I think that's a good thing, "friends with benefits" notwithstanding.

When I thought Mr. Invulnerable-Bonehead was making some progress, this just frustrated me all over again. He's boring to death, repeating the same lines like a broken record.
How long he'll keep beating a dead horse? It's irrational. His arguments are so hollow as his head.

The "Kryptonian thing" is a big part of who he is. If she didn't know about it, what else was there to know about a kid/teenager? Nothing relevant. She doesn't know anything about important stuff (his powers, Latislan, his work, his sons) and she doesn't know most of what happened with him in the last years.

Obviously she isn't anymore. For three years.

So Lana was like a dog or a cat. They stay there with you even if they don't know what is happening. And they don't ask anything. :p

Duh! Of course, she had no idea he was different.

Just not his kids.

She loved Clark Kent, farm kid from Smallville. What about Kal-El from Krypton?

That wasn't stronger than his attraction to Lois. He had refused to make love to Lana even when they were together, but he had been "completely defenseless against Lois' advances". It should mean something.

Me too.

Lois will never be Lana. So, it's hopeless. Maybe if she changed her name to 'Lana' and dyed her hair blond he'd fall in love with her.

I'm trying very hard not to get too worked up about the preview, so I won't be disappointed if it's just a kiss and... nothing. It probably is just an evil tease and after the kiss Clark says she isn't Lana and Lois goes swimming to drown her frustration.

Is it Tuesday yet?

Andreia

I’ve been reading these past several chapters, but haven’t provided any feedback, largely because I think I’m still getting used to reading a fic in chapter format, rather than in full format. It’s hard, reading chapter by chapter, wanting a story to go one way, and then when it doesn’t (because it’s live after all), thinking that things are out-of-character or not really where you would have taken the characters if this were a “Choose your Own Adventure” type deal.

I love this story, Carol, don’t get me wrong. I wouldn’t be still reading it 115 chapters later if I didn’t love your writing and the way you have fleshed out these particular characters.

I think this story has one flaw though, and if this comes out wrong, I apologize. I think this story would have better as an original fic rather than an L&C adaptation. As Sheila mentioned, I don’t see the show’s L & C in these characters you’ve developed.

The Lois we know is tenacious, career driven and a little rough around the edges. Yes, she’s lonely, and lacks a bit of confidence in the relationship areas. But, overall, she’s longing for love, but met up with the wrong guys.

In this story, I’m sorry to say, Clark is one of these “wrong” guys from her past. Lois accepts him for who he is, bore his children and wants a committed relationship. Instead, this Clark is not committed to his marriage and is having a mental affair with his ex-girlfriend. Yes, he doesn’t think about Lana all the time. This is an improvement. But, is it really? So, your husband doesn’t think about his ex-girlfriend all the time, but just sometimes. Lois shouldn’t settle for this, and as I’ve mentioned before, she’s better off without him.

Your Clark is totally different than the show Clark as well. Clark, as we know him, would do anything to make Lois happy. Her happiness always comes before his. I see these qualities in your Clark, but he’s been at a stand still for so long, that any move towards love at this point, would seem totally foreign to me. If he needs a preamble to tell Christopher that Dad loves his Mom, this situation is not very good for all those involved. Clark is supposed to be Lois' knight in shining armour? But here, Clark is the problem, and someone needs to rescue her. If it's not Clark, then who will?

The reason that I say that this should be an original fic, is then we wouldn’t have the notion that these two people are soul mates and MUST be together. We would take your characters as given and not compare them to the characters on the show. You’ve carved out whole, complex characters that shouldn’t be compared to other versions, but because this is fan fic based, we do and I think this is part of the problem.

We know “the ending” to this fic (or what we want the ending to be, and I’m not saying that you’ll give it to us). It’s the journey to that ending that I’m not really seeing as realistic at the moment. How will the Lane and Kent partnership form, when it’s Kent and Kent right now. How will Lois Lane be a career-driven, tenacious and a workaholic career woman when she has two kids at home? How will these two characters fall in love at first sight, when they’ve already lived with each other for three years, produced two babies together, and it’s still unrequited love for Clark?

Carol, I’m sure that you’ve thought about these questions already, and once again, I don’t mean to provide negative criticism. In fact, I think all of us readers should thank you for this new take on these characters and for producing such a intricate story. It’s my thought though, that by choosing to do this in a fan fic format, rather than an original fic format, you’ve constrained yourself and these characters. I’m concerned that these constraints may be too much for a realistic turnaround for your Kent family.

I would actually be ok with this option. I think a commitment to having a stable, loving family is just as important as all this love BS.

A few people have commented on how different this is from the tv show we used to watch, but one really doesn't have a lot to do with the other for my viewing purposes. I always thought that part of what made Clark so 'Clark' was all of the life experiences he had before he met Lois. But here, by throwing an evil dictator into the mix, he hasn't travelled the world. He hasn't had the opportunity to perform miracles all over the world and realize how much he wants to save people. He hasn't had the opportunity to realize what a cow Lana is and develop some extra values. He may talk about being Mr. Incredible, but without seeing the world, he hasn't seen how much it needs a hero--someone with higher standards who's going to leave things better than when he arrived. Maybe the poor guy just needs to go find himself.

Just my spare change.
Great parts,
JD

I happen to agree, Shadow, which is why I'm so frustrated at both L&C agreeing that that isn't an option.

OTOH, I also agree with Grinch. I have certain expectations for the characters of Lois and Clark, and I've been feeling for quite a while that those expectations are hindering my response to the well-developed characters in this story. Carol, how wedded are you to the "alien from Krypton" stuff?

Sheilah and JD, I agree too... but bear in mind that these two are still only 20 *and* had very limited dating experience... so they are still immature in their views of what makes a life partnership work.

Carol, your baby pics nearly made me cry. This little boy looks so fragile that it's a miracle he's doing as well as he does. I can't imagine what it must be like to go through what you went through with him. *hugs*

About the rest: I think it's good that Lois and Clark finally talked about what it is that has Clark emotionally attached to Lana. Maybe he will start thinking. Maybe not. (Clark is a notorious lunkhead, no kidding.)

And about the preview: They're not doing it again, are they? They really don't need another child within the next seven, eight months.

I actually think that a friends with benefits type relationship is just what these two need. I know that sex rarely solves any problem but please try to follow my tiwsted logic. Most times when people try to be friends with benefits it ends in epic failure because one or both parties realize that the reason they agreed to it in the first place is because they have feelings for this there person and aren't satisfied with such a shallow relationship. I think Clark needs that to realize that the reason the sex was so spectacular wasn't simply something physical it was because they were both making love.

I agree with the theory that Clark is atually very much in love with and is being too much of a sturborn lunkhead to admit to himself. That's probably the most frustrating thing, they have such beatiful moments together that just scream love to me and they BOTH pretend that they're just acts of friendship.

Btw carol I'm so addicted to story it's almost sad. Reading it is almost always the highlight of my day.

Beat me to it, Lieta! That was exactly my thought as well. I'm kind of a confirmed bachelorette, but when I look back at those college years, all I can do is chuckle at my friends and some of their disastrous relationships. And life is still biting some of them in the rear because they haven't figured out what makes up real partnership.

JD

Hear! Hear! to all who are voting for the third option.

BTW, there was one other thing I thought they were overlooking. If they wait for possible invulerability to occur it would be possible that the condition might never fix itself. While the acid wouldn't burn in the same way it would mean that at some point surgery isn't an option. So if there is only a partial invulnerability (my eyes cross at what that looks like, since obviously partial invulnerability would be vulnerable) he could end up with the worst of both worlds.


Elisabeth

I agree with much that has been stated above, but I do differ on the out-of-characterness. It has been years since I've watched an episode of LnC, and I have come to the realization that I have idealized Lois and Clark in my mind to the point that no characterization of them in any publication (movie, tv, comic, etc) has fulfilled that ideal. That said, I am very forgiving of the versions of them that show up in fics because I know this is us throwing them into crazy situations and seeing if they can swim. The current LnC that are in this fic are certainly frustrating, but I'm not at the point where I find them unrecognizable.

OTOH, I have certainly sat in reservation about how their relationship is going to work out. I can't see their happy ending from where I'm standing right now, so I keep coming back every day in anticipation for the turning point. I almost feel like Clark desecrated Friends by alluding that Lana is his Rachel. The boy is confused and I think he needs a FoLC intervention.

Loved the pics, Carol. DS is very cute and precious even when he was all swaddled up and in the hospital. I just wanted to hug him.

As for the previews... that 'Make me forget' thing really feels like a red herring. Add my vote to the 'beneficial relationship' deal. I think they need to reignite the flame before it gets too easy to walk away (because aside from Navance, I still don't have a burning need for them to be together).

Carpe Tomorrow!
~s

On a slightly random aside... Carol, you hit the nail on the head when you named this fic... I see the title in the debates at lest once every FDK =P

I do see Lois and Clark, as we know them, in these characters. I just think that Carol's characters, given their circumstances, may need to go on a different path than the show. Carol's Lois and Clark have had different circumstances surround them, they have different personalities and of course, they have two children together.

Having noted these differences, I'd like Carol to steer these characters to their appropriate conclusion, and not try to please us by having a happily ever after. I'm open to any ending as long as it is realistic and believable for all involved.

I'm going to go hide under my rock again. grinch

As far as the "out of character" debate, I do agree that this Lois and Clark are different than the ones from canon. But I can also see symiliar personality traits.

Clark certainly WAS not acttracted to/in love with Lois right away. Most people do see that as an essential part of "Clark."
I admit that was the way I always saw it, too.

But this is the way I see this story. Clark wasn't going to be in love with Lois at first sight if he was serious enough about Lana to plan on marrying her when the story started. Jumping from one woman to the other that quickly is what would be a lot more "out of character" for me.

And Clark always said he fell in love with Lois at first sight on the show. Maybe that was true, to a certain extent. Chemistry? Yes. Her passion, which canon Clark always loved about her? Yes. How much she loved reporting, which Clark always loved about her? Yes. And even how much she cared, even though the hid it under the "tough reporter image"? Yes, because she was obviously worried about the colonists, even though she pretended it was only the story she cared about.

But what about values? What about friendship? What about bond of "understanding" rather than just a mythical "connection"?
Those aren't things you can find at first sight.

And that's why a story that has them find love more gradually, works better for me in many ways, even though I still love canon LNC's relationship.


And since, as I have said before, I have been in a situation where one of my best friends was in love with me while I wasn't in love with him, I am a lot more sympathetic to Clark's situation in this story.

I still see Clark's resistance to Lois as evidence of "double-edged-guilt" as oppossed to selfishness and "holding out for Lana."
I will also say, from exprience, that if he wants to move on with his life with Lois, or even with someone else, he will have to let that go eventually.

BUT, I also know how powerful "double-edged-guilt" can be. And since Clark is MARRIED to Lois, rather than just dating her, and getting pressure from his parents, and at this point, Sam, as well, it makes it even more powerful. So the fact that it is taking him so long to get over it totally works for me.

EDIT: Oh and, as far as Lois's desire to not settle for "second best", Carol has mentioned this as an important part about this fic to her, so it's not surprising to me that she's saying it.
Well I will say that she's being petty, to a certain extent, she is also being Lois. ANY LOIS, as I said in the 112/113 feedback thread, has always been a very proud woman. Agreeing to settle for "second best" goes against her pride.

Furthermore, with all she's had to deal with for the past three years, I think we should cut her a little slack. She's preparing herself for the eventuall divorce, in part because she's believes it's unavoidable, and in part because she wants to grant the man she loves some happiness.
But I think she thinks having him go to Lana and then come back and say "let's try it again Lois", would simply be too much for her heart to take.

Okay, now let's take my "defender of Clark hat" off, and talk about his convesation with Sam again.
THIS is where I think Clark was being selfish. He WASN'T EVEN THINKING about how Lois would feel about it. He just had his head in his hands thinking "I should avoid Sam so He won't believe I'm not good enough to Lois."

EDIT: And I still believe he should have told her. From the very beginning, they made decisions about Navance and the consquencs of that, together.
Part of what she's saying here has to do with Christopher's partentage. (They didn't realize Clark could be the father backt then.) Part of that has to do with not telling anyone about Navance, which of course isn't an issue anymore because of the media.
But part of this is also the circumstances of their marriage.

And when he had to tell Sam about Navance BY MISTAKE, he acknowledged he should have talked to Lois first, even though he only told him because Sam overheard him on the phone.
And this is before they had become friends again and he "loved her like a friend."
And Lois did get upset, but acknowledged that it made sense that he told Sam if heard him talking to Daniel on the phone.

But - later they had this conversation.

Even when they were barely tolerating each other (and this scene is definitely taken from one of those times - it was shortly after their first trip to Smallville), they DISCUSSED whether to tell anyone about their circumstances. They always agreed not to.

Sam, as I said before, said he already knew something was off. But Clark still didn't have to tell him what he did.
And even if he did tell him, Clark should STILL TELL LOIS what they discussed.
When he had to tell Sam about Navance, they talked about it. Where is that conversation now? Where is Clark even THINKING he should CONSIDER it?

Sorry I'm so late to the party. I was sick yesterday and had to go home from school, and when I came home I saw that two new chapters of OTOH were up, but I was too tired to read them.

Those pics of DS were heartbreaking, Carol. I'm so glad that your little son is doing well now.

I loved that Christopher asked Clark why he didn't say 'love you' to Lois. And of course, I loved that Lois asked Clark why he prefers Lana over her.

And Clark even answered, or tried to. His answers weren't all that bad, but they weren't good either.

In a previous chapter, Clark said to himself that it was his inner teenager who now wanted him to stay with Lois. That would mean that it was the older, more mature Clark who realized that he had to break up their family and leave her.

I think Clark is totally wrong about this. It is Clark's more mature side that wants him to stay and take care of his family. It is his inner teenager who keeps fantasizing about the wonderful love he will find once he leaves Lois.

Clark and Lois don't hate one another. They don't go around noticing each other's bad habits. They don't get on one another's nerves.

I don't see why this Lois and this Clark couldn't have a good marriage. What it takes is commitment. There is no doubt whatsoever that if they just started making love to each other, that aspect of their marriage would work out just great. We already know that Clark enjoys taking care of Lois, and he loves being with Christopher. And Christopher wants his Mom.

Clark and Lois don't have to fear that they will start resenting each other. If Clark just lets go of his inner teenager, he will realize that all that it takes to make his marriage to Lois a truly good one is commitment.

I want Clark to say this to Lois:

"Lois, I may not be 'in love' with you in the same way that I was with Lana. But you and I have so many other things going for us. We have two beautful sons. We are committed to giving our sons the best childhood they can have. We like being around each other, when your heart isn't breaking because you are thinking of how I will leave you. We even have the same jobs. And on the few occasions that we have had sex, it has been absolutely 'super'.

There is no reason why we can't be happy. I can see that now. I've had my heart set on a pipe dream, but it's time for me to grow up now. I thought I loved Lana, but I wasn't sharing my life with her. I'm doing that with you. What I have with you is so much more tangible and real that what I ever had with Lana. I know now that if I went back to her, or tried to, I would ruin what we have, which is the most precious thing I have had in my life.

Yes, my inner teenager still insists that I don't love you the way I loved Lana. But my inner teenager is a kid. It's time for me to grow up. So, Lois, will you have me, for better or worse until death do us part?"

Ann

I have to agree. But then this is not Clark. It is someone raised by different people with a completely different background and completely different attitude about life.

I've given up on this guy ever becoming Superman. This fool would just screw it up.

So do we skip ahead a few years and watch him make a mess of it with Lana, and Toni and Mayson?

Or perhaps he can lose his powers and wander the world dying sad and alone.

At anytime I expect to see Lex Luthor riding to the rescue.

Even better can we kill off this Clark and have Lois meet Richard White?

More sunlight folks.