Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Lois & Clark Fanfic FDK: On The Other Hand, 134 and 135/?

Michael, that sounds like a really evil plot twist, and I'm just not sober enough to handle evil right now lol.

Happy holidays you evil mastermind genius,
JD

Good thing I read it last night, Carol, and had time to sleep and forget it so I could enjoy my Christmas Except, when they made the decision originally, they hadn't chosen to sleep together and had another child together, which changed the entire situation. As much as we chew on Clark for making unilateral decisions without Lois, she's doing the same thing to him. Sara, don't worry about using my name. I was just disagreeing with how you saw Lois's behavior. It was entirely the characters that irritated me, not you, not at all. I was irritated enough with Lois that when she mentioned her headache, I didn't feel any sympathy because I figured it matched that crown of thorns she was trying to wear. In the middle of our 30-year marriage, DH and I were divorced for three years. I understand the concept of letting go of someone you love with as much grace and generosity as you can. But that's not the same as what Lois is doing. I don't know about that. I just thought I'd share a story from personal experience. When DH and I walked out of the courtroom after the final hearing on our divorce, he said he was afraid he had made a mistake. Although I still loved him dearly and hadn't wanted the divorce, I was so furious that I wanted to slap him. He put the kids and me through six months of hell for something he wasn't sure about?! He could have stopped it any time before that by withdrawing the petition, and he waited until it was too late before he had second thoughts? I didn't slap him or scream at him, but I think I said, "It's a little late now, isn't it?" and walked off. Re L&C--if they let the divorce go through, then they won't be in the sort of mindset that will allow them to turn around and remarry immediately. Carol may not be thinking of anything like that, but I figure I'd throw in my 2 cents worth.

I thinbk I'm about to start a controversy here.

Sheila, it's no secret that you have been extremely critical of Lois in this fic, much more critical of her than of Clark. And you have criticized her so harshly even though she has always wanted Clark to stay with her, while Clark has been the one who has wanted to put an expiration date on their marriage.

(All right, Lois has indeed asked for a divorce, but she has done it for the same reason that people on death row sometimes try to kill themselves - to put an end to the agonizing countdown torture.)

In your last post, you shared some of your personal experience with us. You were in no way obliged to do so, and we most certainly don't have any right to critique your personal life choices. Even so, I'm going to quote something you said.

It definitely seems to me as if you blame your husband for your divorce:

Your husband put you and your kids through six months of hell asking for a divorce that you yourself didn't want. Finally you gave him what he was asking for, and then he told you that he wasn't sure about the divorce. You reacted angrily:

You walked off, instead of fighting for an immediate re-marriage. I'm sure I don't blame you for walking off. I think most FoLCs here sympathize with you.

But I think you may be telling us that you later regretted walking off. I imagine that the divorce caused you a lot of heartache and practical problems, and in hindsight, you may have wished that you had swallowed your pride and tried to get your husband back as soon as possible.

So you blame yourself for not doing enough to salvage your marriage or getting a remarriage as soon as possible after the divorce. And you blame yourself for this even though you acknowledge that it was your husband who was the one who wanted to break up.

Now it seems to me that you blame Lois for the fact that Clark wants to get out of his marriage, in the same way that you seem to blame yourself for not salvaging your own marriage or getting remarried sooner after your husband had insisted on a divorce. When it comes to your own situation and your own marriage, only you can be the judge of what was right and wrong there. However, if you apply the same principles to all marriages, things get more complicated and troublesome. Because then you are in fact saying that it is the wife's fault if the husband pushes for a divorce.

In my opinion, each marriage is its own special case, and it is impossible for an outsider to assign blame onto one party or the other without knowing the circumstances as well as the spouses do. It is particularly impossible to say that it is always the husband's fault, or it is always the wife's fault.

But, Sheila, it seems to me that that is what you are saying. If the husband wants a divorce, it is always the wife's fault.

If you look at marriage that way, I think you are saying that marriage is not an equal partnership at all, not something that both spouses are responsible for. Instead, marriage is a gracious gift that the husband bestows on his wife, and the wife, in return, should be humbly laboring to preserve the gift her husband has bestowed on her. She is the one who should tirelessly labor to convince her husband that he will be less happy if he leaves her than if he stays.

Maybe I have misread you. Maybe that is not what you are saying at all. But even if that really is what you are saying, it doesn't follow that I have the right to criticize you for holding this view. We are certainly all entitled to our opinions.

But, Sheila, it seems to me that you have repeatedly told Carol that she should re-write her story and change Lois's behaviour. I get the impression that you have been slamming this story to the point that you have insisted that Lois's behaviour is intolerable and needs to be changed. And if that is what you really think, then you haven't been sharing your own opinions with us. Instead you have told us that it is a wife's duty to fight for her marriage if her husband wants to leave, and if he leaves her after all it is the wife's own fault. Moreover you have told us that this is not your opinion but the truth.

If that is what you have been saying, Sheila, then I think you have crossed a line. But I must admit that I'm not at all certain that I have read you correctly.

Ann

/grins about reply to first post, even if I'm not right/

What can I say? I have a devious mind. As long as it's just devious insinuation /shivers/ /shivers/

Merry Day After Christmas .

I'll admit that I'm more than a little fuzzy at the moment - though not as much as I will be when I get Sudafed in me [at which point I may fall asleep which would be bad with my 3yo awake ] - so I'm going to leave most of that alone.

That said, yes, things have changed [re sleeping together etc] but getting a divorce after 5 years has been mentioned since then as the decision of choice.

Michael - you are evil and we'll leave it at that.

Anyone want a whiny 3yo?

Carol

Just throwing in a couple of two cents here. I didn't start reading this one until about Part 83 or so. Not that I don't love Carol's writing - because I do - but I'm less fond of "early" L&C stories.

As mature as Lois and Clark both probably believed themselves to believe they were at 18, let's face it: they were only 18, they still had - and STILL have - a lot to learn about life. I'm sure I'm not the only one who thought they had pretty much a handle on everything at 18. Over the years, I learned that I wasn't quite as smart or mature as I thought I was.

Clark and Lois are both making lots of mistakes, both making decisions and judgements based on what they assume the other is thinking/feeling, which is not always correct. I understand how each of them feel, and I feel sorry for both of them, but I don't know that either one of them is MORE to blame for the state that they're in. Although certainly it's easy to point the finger at Clark for pining after Lana for so long.

And Ann, I totally agree with you that each marriage is a special case and that no outsider can fully understand the circumstances. But this comment of yours, surprised me. I haven't read all the comments in all the feedback folders, so perhaps you are referring to earlier comments Sheila has made, but certainly I did not get this interpretation from Sheila's statement in this folder. Not at all.

Kathy

Let me rephrase it. It seems to me that Sheila is saying that if a man wants to leave his wife, it is up to the wife to fight for her marriage and make her husband stay. If he leaves her anyway, it is the wife's fault, because she didn't fight for him hard enough. So the fact that the husband wants to leave is not much a problem in itself, and not much of a threat to the marriage in itself. The problem is if the wife doesn't fight for her marriage and her husband hard enough. Which does makes it her fault if her husband leaves her.

And yes, I was referring to earlier posts by Sheila more than to this one.

Ann

Carol, I'm just replying on this so you don't misunderstand what I was trying to say. No, sorry, Ann, that wasn't my intent. I only used that personal experience to show that something as ugly as a divorce can't just be shrugged aside and forgotten instantly, no matter how much you love your spouse. It causes real, terrible pain that has to be gotten over before rebuilding the relationship can begin. That hasn't been my intention. I have requested additional scenes to show the positive sides of the characters' behavior (both Lois's and Clark's) or to explain their changed feelings, but my intention has never been to have Carol change what she's already written. For example, if Lois falls in love with Clark while he's being a b*stard to her because he's so good-looking and so good with their son, it makes her look shallow or masochistic. But if Carol includes a scene from Lois's POV where Clark is playing with the baby and being so kind and friendly to her as well, then the reader goes, "Yeah, I can see why she'd fall for him." Carol, I hope that isn't the way it comes across, but if it is, I'm sorry because it isn't my intent. After my first post, I've just tried to respond by telling you how the characters or situations make me feel. It's up to you to decide whether that reaction is what you want some of your readers to have or not. Sorry, Ann, I have never, not for one moment, thought anything remotely like that. Not about my own marriage, not about anyone else's marriage, not about any fictional marriage. I only mentioned my own divorce and remarriage in response to Sara's song quote, "If you love someone, you've got to let them go," to explain that I know experientially what it means and that it's not the same thing Lois was doing.

Thank you for your thoughtful response, Sheila.

Ann