Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Lois & Clark Fanfic FDK - Treasure Chest 5/15

Thanks to Iolanthe for a speedy last-minute re-read of part of this.

Corrina.

Thundering dolt doesn't begin to describe it. Clark needs to actually listen to his wife. How many times did she say that she wanted to go away with him to be with him? To spend time with him? To focus on their relationship?

I don't doubt that Lois feels the aching absence that the childlessness of their marriage has created. But it certainly seems like Clark feels it more and is transferring those feelings to Lois. He is hellbent on destroying their relationship despite the fact that she's making very clear at this point that she wants to *fight* for their relationship.

Knife. Twisting. In stomach. I'm all for slipping Clark a little green K so he can't run away.

Nice pool of angst, Corrina! I haven't dived into a heartbreaker in a while.


JD

A Clark this stupid doesn't deserve to be married to Lois.

I agree. He's almost too stupid to bear in this fic. The only possible explanation for it could be Rac's very astute one, that he is projecting his terrible pain about their childlessness (and some guilt too, no doubt) onto Lois. That still doesn't excuse his behaviour here, though.

Poor Clark, poor Lois, he thinks he knows exactly what her motivations for everything are, so doesn't give her much chance to speak and he's way off base; and Lois knows something is wrong, wants to fight for their relationship, but so far lets him talk her out of it, deflates her excitement and doesn't wait for her to explain exactly why she wants to go there. The problem is that they still are not talking very much at all about what they really are thinking and feeling, and talking in depth to catch up on a year of not communicating is not an easy thing, even when you're both equally motivated (which is rare at the same time).

Sometimes you can feel so heartbroken, blaming yourself for every little thing, but finally finding out that what you thought you did wrong wasn't, why your partner acted that way was for a very different reason; but to find out those things you had to dig and keep asking for more details, more and more of their thought processes and feelings and more to finally understand, finally find yourself in each other again. But in the struggle, hopefully new strength is found and more love than you thought possible.

Hope that makes some sense. Sorry to be so long.

Great writing!

In most marital problems, there are two sides. I have tried to present both sides and show that both Lois and Clark share responsibility here.

Therefore, I am a little confused as to why Clark seems to be taking most of the blame. Perhaps it is because Lois's mistakes are written as past events, whereas Clark's mistakes are more current.

Regarding Clark's stupidity - he would be a whole lot less stupid if his attitude were ... Lois has shown no interest in me for over a year. She doesn't bother coming home when I cook her meals, she barely glanced at the gift I carefully selected for her, she clearly told me that if the Planet needs her attention, I can't expect her to have time for me. It's obvious she wants a divorce.

*Then* his observations and thought processes would be a lot closer to the reality, but that doesn't sound much like Clark to me. Where Lois is concerned, he usually manages to find a way to blame himself for any difficulties.

Rac Yes Lois *said* she wanted to focus on their relationship, but after a year of her having very little time for him, I'm not sure he is entirely at fault for wondering what's behind her sudden change of priorities.

Your second paragraph is very apt. Particularly the part about Clark feeling it more. He feels their childlessness is his fault.

Thanks so much for leaving FDK. I appreciate your opinion.

JD

We won't need green K! Thanks for your comments.

cookiesmom

Firstly, I really appreciate you leaving FDK.

Secondly, in the interest of balance, the comment could be made - A Lois this neglectful doesn't deserve to be married to Clark.

Again I feel they are both at fault. Had the FDK bagged Lois for her actions, I would have been pointing out that Clark had a part in this too.

Thanks.

Betty Please see comment above about Clark being stupid. Yes, the conclusions he has drawn from his own feelings and what he has observed in Lois are wrong, but as Evelyn says, that isn't unusual in marriage.

Thanks for leaving FDK, Betty. I appreciate your opinion.

Evelyn

That's what I was thinking. This has been slowly sliding for over a year. I'm not sure it would be realistic to fix it in a half-hour chat.

If I needed a synopsis for this fic ... there it is.

Thanks everyone. I might not completely agree with all of the views expressed, (which could be due to something missing in the fic - did I need to emphasise Lois's neglect more? - or could be because my intention will become clearer in later parts) but I do really appreciate you reading and then taking the time to tell me what you think.

Thanks.

Corrina.

arghhh.... stupid Clark would rather share TMI with Martha than just talk it out with Lois! why make all these assumptions on his own now? hasn't he learned anything from the past? (i.e. when he thought it wasn't safe to be in a relationship with lois?)

and what abt. lois? all of a sudden she's missing clark? it's almost like she already lost him, going over his clothes at home... is it precipitated by what's happening with lucy, or does she somehow subconsciously sense what clark is abt. to do?


grrr.... talk to each other already! loving the story btw, just frustrated with these 2

I agree with you completely - A Lois that neglectfull doesn't deserve Clark and a Clark that stupid doesn't deserve Lois.

Wonder when they will start to see things from the other's point of view?

Corinna, you make a good point and I completely agree that Lois is being as neglectful as Clark is being a lunkhead.

At the same time, it's easier to have sympathy for her. For me, this is because the problem of getting caught up in work, letting things drift, and not noticing that they are drifting until almost too late, is one that is much more common and relatable than the problem of someone deciding to get a divorce for the good of his spouse (for whatever reason).

You've also made it clear that Lois was burying herself in work as her way of coping with pain, and you've shown us more of her insecurity and fear, with her realization that she's been making a mistake. She's trying to change, where Clark is mired in his own wrongheaded decision-making process and (to some extent) in denial about both the pain of their childlessness, and the pain of Lois' neglect and seeming indifference.

The other thing that irks me about Clark in this fic is that his decision to leave is (seemingly) both so high-handed and so self-absorbed. He's decided for both of them what the remedy for their childlessness should be (absenting himself from the picture) instead of getting her input about what they should do now. (For instance, why couldn't they take Dr. Klein or Sam into their confidence, and explore options with one of them?)

It also seems to me to be strange that he wouldn't realize how much divorce will hurt both of them. Any pain Lois felt about their lack of children would surely only be compounded by the pain of a divorce, of being left alone again and having to start over. Given her history with men, he should realize how devastating that would be, quite apart from the pain of losing him.

I don't think you need to make Lois less sympathetic here by emphasizing her neglect; you've emphasized it enough by having her realize it. One reason Clark is less sympathetic than Lois for me is that he seems to be in denial about the depth of his own pain, so we're not seeing it fully (and maybe later chapters will show this more). He's also causing Lois pain with full awareness that he is hurting her, and hurting them. I find that last part is a bit unlike Clark.

I should have combined my earlier observation with praise for this story, which is, like all your stories, very well written -- excruciatingly so. Or I should have saved my fdk until the story was complete and I saw where you are taking these characterizations. Sorry about that.

I actually see all this as more Lois' problem. Lois basically neglected Clark for a year. Clark has been a lunkhead but only recently.

How can Lois expect 1 day of paying attention to Clark to make up for a year of neglect. I am glad to see her pondering what Clark did while she was so preoccupied with work.

Also planning a vacation next week for another person without consulting them seems a little selfish. In a way it sounds romantic but she had to assume Clark had nothing important to do and would be willing to drop everything. No wonder he wonders what is going on.

They are both making assumptions about what the other is thinking and not talking about what they want or need from each other.

Yes Clark is trying to be noble and take the blame but where was Lois during this last year?

Like someone said we all get caught up in work and other things and do not realize what we are doing to loved ones.

However we each own our behavior and its consequences. I am glad Lois is waking up

Kathy
www.chili-everyway.com

I see both at fault, but I admit my sympathies lie with Clark.

Lois, quite simply, did not even consider Clark's feelings or his happiness when she pushed him aside and did her best to show him that her work came before he did; Clark, at least, is doing what he *believes* will be best for Lois.

Also, I don't really see Clark as stupid. Mistaken, or even simply WRONG, but not stupid. His wife cried when they made love. Given his own deep grief over their inability to have children, along with the fact that there was absolutely no other evident reason for her tears, I think it is entirely reasonable for him to make the assumptions he did. Now, his assumptions were wrong, as we know, but *if* they had been true, then I don't think he could be called "stupid" to believe a divorce might be their best option.

Anywho.... as I said before, and as others have said, these two need to talk! Unfortunately, Martha's ill-advised (yet completely accurate) comment that Lois will never leave him, knowing he wants to be with her no matter what, pretty much nipped in the bud any hopes I had of that happening any time soon.

I cannot wait to see what happens next. When do we get Part 6?

Oh, this is so gloriously evil

Say, should I worry if I kept grinning and hyping while reading this part, reveling in the torture you inflicted upon Barbie and Ken? Either that, or sleepiness dulls my angst-meter and just leaves the fun-receptors wide open

I loved Lois excitement after she realized what she had to do. And then you pulled out the first strain of doubt. The first time Lois wondered if her husband was already looking for someone else. Had already found someone else.

Did I already mention FUN! Looking forward to more torture.

Michael

Corrina, I agree that Lois has been at least equally responsible for the decline in their marital happiness (in my comments in the last section, I chastised both of them). You are correct, that part of the issue is that Lois's wrongdoing was in the past, whereas we're watching Clark foul things up. However, I would posit that another key issue is the fact Clark's errors are the same ones he's been making for years. He's been with Lois for ten years and yet, he still thinks the way to deal with their issues is to decide what is best for Lois, not consult her, and then make a life altering decision for both of them. Lois is a grownup and "breaking up with her for her own good" is not really the way to show he respects her.

If Clark were unhappy enough to want out of his marriage, he would be well within his rights to get out. Especially given how Lois has treated him in the last year. But honestly, even though she should know how much she's been taking him for granted, he should have told her how it made him feel. Trying to make her want out of their marriage by acting distant and hoping she'll assume she'll be happier with someone else is juvenile and I'd expect Clark would have grown out of it by now.

I didn't get the impression Clark's distancing was an attempt to "get Lois to want a divorce", but rather an attempt to grant her an guilt-free escape from (what he assumes to be) a painful situation.

If all that had happened was that Lois and Clark found out they couldn't have kids, and Clark took it upon himself to, basically, push Lois out of the marriage against her will, "for her own good", that would be different. But after the way Lois has ignored him for the past year or so, I honestly don't think he realizes how much pain a divorce would cause her; he's concerned that she will stay with him out of guilt because she knows how much pain a divorce would cause *him*.

Also, and I know I keep harping on this, but Lois cried when they made love. That has got to have shaken Clark to the very core. Believing what he believes, I can't help but see his actions as incredibly selfless and, yes, even loving. </me ducks>

I do understand what others are saying about him being wrong in (once again) making decisions without discussing them with Lois. The difference, as I see it, is that the last time, Clark *knew* Lois didn't want to break up with him; this time, he doesn't know that. Well, I mean I guess he knows she loves him, but he also knows she can live just fine without him (as she has been doing for pretty much the past year) and he believes that staying married to him is causing her pain. Again I say, these two need to talk!

Interesting. And to nobody's surprise, I'm on Lois's side.

First, the fact that Lois has been neglecting Clark. In part 4 it said:

That must have been so frustrating for Clark. On the other hand, I think Perry White does the same thing. And I can't think of a single fic where Perry has been actually censored for doing so - by his wife perhaps, but not by the author of the fic. It is all right for a man to spend all his time at work. But it is not all right for a woman to do the same thing.

It is not as if Lois has been holed up in her office for decades, even though Perry may have come close to doing so. Lois has given all her spare time to the Planet for about a year, and she is beginning to feel really bad about it. She concludes that Clark is her first priority, not the Daily Planet. I wonder if Perry has ever come to the conclusion that Alice is more important to him than his job as an Editor in Chief. No, correction - I think Perry may be telling himself that Alice is the most important thing in his life, but that doesn't mean that he can't keep spending all his nights at the Daily Planet all the same. I believe Perry may be telling himself that Alice can still be the most important thing in his life even though he barely sees her.

I think that very many people feel it is okay for a man to spend most of his time away from his wife. A man should work and provide for his family. A man may even prove his love for his wife by being away from her most of the time to make the money he needs to provide for her.

But providing financially for a husband is not a woman's job. She is supposed to be at home and wait for her husband to return from work and to show support and love for him when he comes home. Being away from home is what is not acceptable for a woman.

So if Lois has neglected Clark it is not so much because she has spent her evenings at work, but rather because she has spent her evenings at work even though she is a married woman who should be at home waiting to take care of her husband instead.

It is interesting to see that when Lois realizes that she has been neglecting Clark, she realizes how very much she needs and loves Clark, and how horrible it would be to lose him. She needs him.

Lois wants Clark. She starts planning for a vacation, so that she can get away from work with him and truly show him how she loves him. But what does Clark want?

Yes, Clark wants Lois, but it seems to me that he only wants her if she can have a child. He wants Lois with a child. Lois, on the other hand, wants Clark, whether or not he can give her a child.

When Clark learns that Lois has planned a vacation for the two of them, he turns her down, flatly and coldly. This reminds me of a movie I saw just two days ago. It was about a young couple, and in the beginning of the movie the woman was strong, happy, smiling, grinning and brimming with confidence. The man, however, was rather silent and depressive from the start. As the movie went on, the man dragged the woman down into his own pool of depression. Also, interestingly, whatever the girlfriend suggested the man turned her down. She wanted them to move in together, and he turned her down. She wanted a child, and he turned her down. She wanted them to go out dancing, and he turned her down. She wanted them to go boating with a very nice couple she had met, and he turned her down. She wanted to come with him when he went to town to meet one of his buddies, and he turned her down - he pushed her bodily away from him, jumped into the car and drove away from her, leaving her all alone all night in a big house far away in the country.

Whatever she wanted, whatever she suggested, he turned her down. I thought the man was intolerable and that the woman ought to leave him as quickly as she could. But interestingly, the movie itself was just impassively recording the events. The movie didn't draw any conclusions and didn't apportion blame. I'm sure you could watch the movie and not understand why things went wrong, not unless you were willing to accept that it was the man's fault for treating his girlfriend so badly, and the woman's fault for staying with a man who treated her so badly.

Clark's treatment of Lois in this fic doesn't come close to the boyfriend's treatment of his girlfriend in the movie I saw. And Lois, unlike the girlfriend in the movie, is just so much stronger and so much more able make a life for herself and make the money she needs and get herself the job fulfillment she craves. Clark's and Lois's relationship is just so much more equal than the relationship between the couple in the movie.

Still their relationship is unequal. Because Lois wants Clark, but Clark wants Lois with a child. Lois wants to fight for her relationship with Clark, but Clark is despairing of his ability to give Lois a child, so he wants to divorce her. To Lois Clark is good enough in himself, but to Clark Lois isn't good enough in herself.

Everyone who may read this FDK knows where my sympathies lie. Lois, you are a good Editor in Chief. If you aren't good enough for Clark if you can't give him a child, remember that you are more than good enough for the newspaper that you are the editor of.

Ann

But of course we know that Clark just thinks that Lois is miserable and has buried herself in her work because of not being able to have a child, and he blames himself, isolating himself even more in so much heartache and pain because of his differences; it's not right thinking, but he is suffering greatly nonetheless. He doesn't know Lois wants him for him; he thinks she wanted to go away that specific week because she thought she would get pregnant, hence not wanting to go another week later confirmed for him, even though he is wrong; he is tortured with prolonging the pain he is causing her. And actually I think her planning their vacation without consulting him contributed in their having less discussion about it and his questioning much more and refusing than if she had told him her idea beforehand and gotten his ideas; in that she was making the decisions for both of them without consulting him first. Over the past year, they are even less used to doing things together than when they first were engaged/first married. This has been a real setback in their relationship.

The previous comment about Lois crying after their making love, sent Clark on a downward spiral of more guilt and absolutely convinced that he had caused her tears and he has never been able to stand the thought of her crying, especially that he made her cry. He is in so much anguish, which is now just adding to her anguish and guilt and now doubt in him.

This story is told so well, so much realistic happenings, great job! Even though it is slow torture, the rewards I think are waiting for us to be patient enough with them to go through their struggles.

This really shows how effective your writing really is in how much you have us hooked and reeled into Lois and Clark's lives as set in your story! Awesome.

Yes, she was making a decision about a week's vacation for both of them without consulting him first, but Clark has been making bigger decisions for both of them - for her - without consulting her first. Remember that he once broke up with her for her own good, and now he has decided to divorce her for her own good.

I know which of them I think is making the biggest decisions for both of them without consulting the other person first.

Ann

Your conclusion does not follow. Perry and Alice divorced, which would seem to indicate that the writers of the show understood that a man can *not* spend all his time at work. I can't think of a single fic in which Perry's side was taken over Alice's, nor can I recall a single comment on these boards to the effect that Alice should have stayed with Perry because "it is all right for a man to spend all his time at work."

If people who didn't have anything to say one way or the other about Perry's divorce now censor Lois for doing the same thing Perry did, maybe it's not because they are sexist pigs who don't think a woman should have the right to make the marital mistakes Perry was "free" to make, but rather that they are more emotionally involved in Lois & Clark's relationship than they were in Perry & Alice's.

flowerpot Re Clark ... Martha is probably a little more available than Lois is.

Lois got a shock when she found herself thinking about a story when she should have been concentrating on Clark. Plus the situation with Lucy. And, she still loves Clark, she just lost sight of that.

Thanks for your FDK.

DW I tried to show that both of them had contributed to problems. Thanks.

Betty Thanks for your further comments.

I tried to show that they have already done all that. Clark genuinely believes there is no other way for Lois to have a child.

Lois's behaviour the last year has suggested she wouldn't really miss Clark all that much.

That's true. The problem is that when I'm in Clark's POV, I can give what he's feeling and thinking, but not really why because he doesn't fully understand it himself - and he's lost all perspective. And when I'm in Lois's POV, she hasn't got too much understanding yet either.

No! The FDK along the way is great encouragement for a writer. The opinions and speculations (even if they're not where I'm heading) are really valuable and force me to think more deeply about how I've portrayed the characters.

Thanks for your well-thought out comments, Betty.

Kathy Fascinating point. To what extent can our actions be attributed to the behaviour of others? Ultimately, as you said, we are responsible for our own behaviour, but the behaviour of others certainly affects us.

Thanks.

Vicki Thanks for so clearly putting Clark's side to this. He is wrong, but in his mind, it makes sense.

Michael It's perfectly OK that you're having fun! Thanks for you FDK.

Rac I really appreciate your comments and I hope you'll understand that I'm not going to answer them here - the reason being that if I do I will get very close to a part that is still to come in the fic. Thanks - what you said made a lot of sense.

Ann You admitted up front that you were on Lois's side and you give a good explanation from her point of view.

However ... this ...

In my opinion, that is not justifiable from what I have written in the fic. Clark's concerns are that HE is not good enough for HER, not the other way around.

Thanks, Ann.

Evelyn Thanks, Evelyn. Your comments go deep into the reasons and thought-processes of both of them - which is great because as I explained above, I can't really do that as the writer.

Thanks for all your input into this conversation.

Thanks everyone


Corrina.