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Hack from Nowheresville
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Hack from Nowheresville
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Bill Bryson's book 'Mother Tongue' is a really easy to read discussion about English, and it covers things like the difference between US English and UK English. Off the top of my head, because I don't have a copy near me right now. I think he decides that the differences are just due to the natural evolution of languages. When English speakers moved to different parts of the world their use of the language evolved seperately, so we have ended up with all the different types of English we have now. I guess some people would argue that the opposite is happening today, with the increase in global communication. I definately have to think about whether I should spell it grey or gray. What this means, to all you people who are learning English, is that there is no 'correct' version of English. So you learn what's best for your situation Sorry, this is another of my hobby horses . I used to teach English in a school in Poland. I was mainly employed because I was British, as all the other teachers were from the US or Canada, because the Principal wanted the students to learn British English. The main employer in the town was a factory that was a subsiduary of a US company, so my students had to unlearn some of what they had learnt in order to communicate with their bosses. It never made sense to me Sorry, rant over Helga
Knowledge is knowing that tomatoes are a fruit.
Intelligence is not putting them in a fruit salad.
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Merriwether
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Merriwether
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I've always had British English at school and for a long time I wrote behavior as behaviour or color as colour but when I started chatting online with Americans my English started changing too I wonder if sometimes I don't mix both in the same sentence though Here in Canada we also write those words and many more (center = centre) differently. I'm sure I also mix in both at times.
Superman: I hear you've been looking for me. Lois: All my life.
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Pulitzer
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Yes, the differences between different forms of English are fascinating, and the even more fascinating question is why? Helga's explanation sounds like the logical thing. However, I seem to recall that, in a similar discussion a while ago, a FoLC said that the Americans chose to keep their language somehow 'different' from the one used in UK, because they wanted to be separated from them. Or something along these lines. If we're lucky enough, that FoLC might see this thread and repost See ya, AnnaBtG.
What we've got here is failure to communicate...
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Hack from Nowheresville
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Hack from Nowheresville
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Oh, I was going to mention that Anna, but thought I'd talked to much. But since you've bought it up.... :p
There is a very strong sense of identity related to language. That's evident anywhere, for instance it's how in the UK, even today with all our mass media, you can travel 20 miles and hear people talking in a completely different dialect.
So yes, I think places that have taken/adopted English as one of their languages have their own variations partly to support their own identity.
There is an argument that American English is similar to Shakespearean English. This stems from the idea that the first settlers to America held onto the language they bought with them, whereas in the UK the language changed. I'm not so sure about that, mostly because I don't think languages can be held static for 400 years.
OK, I'm going now. Can you tell this is one of my favourite subjects <g>
Helga (Wondering why she's not a linguist)
Knowledge is knowing that tomatoes are a fruit.
Intelligence is not putting them in a fruit salad.
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Hack from Nowheresville
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Hack from Nowheresville
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I know a lot of the accent differences are a combination of both British decision to change "proper" pronunciation taught in schools and American changes and refusal to follow the British changes. That's why you'll note distinctive accents to port towns like Boston or Charleston -- they had difficulty avoiding the British changes because there was an ongoing British presence through the sailors.
I've never heard a discussion of the origins of the usage differences, though.
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Boards Chief Administrator Emeritus Nobel Peace Prize Winner
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I remember reading somewhere - long time ago - that the differences in UK/US spelling (color/colour and so on) came about because there were so many immigrants coming to the US that it was felt the easier words were to spell the better as they learned English. So they removed all the quirks from UK English that made it more difficult and reduced as many words as possible to their simplest form. No idea if that's true or not. But it seems to make a kind of sense and would explain much. LabRat
Athos: If you'd told us what you were doing, we might have been able to plan this properly. Aramis: Yes, sorry. Athos: No, no, by all means, let's keep things suicidal.
The Musketeers
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Top Banana
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OP
Top Banana
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I would guess that the differences in the various forms of English are not intentional (as in, US choosing to be a certain way) but more a result of the different cultures that blend together and add their different bits and pieces. Perhaps like Lab said, it was a matter of simplifying some things to make them easier to say or spell. What does that "u" add to words like colour or flavour and why if they are spelled with the "u" aren't they pronounced like flour? And woudn't theatre be pronounced "the-a-truh" while theater is pronounced "the-a-ter".
Add to things geographical distance and it makes sense that the languages retain differences. I mean, it seems to me that in European nations, the UK English way is taught as the proper form of English. But I'm guessing in Mexico, the US English way is what is taught. I don't know this - I'm just supposing.
Yvonne - the adjustments to the Harry Potter books are very, very minor. And unless you have some familiarity with UK English, you wouldn't even notice the difference. It's not like the entire flavor of the books has changed. Things like "the" have been added in places, but that's really the only thing I noticed flat out.
Lynn
You know that boy'd walk on water for you? Or he'd drown tryin'. -Perry White to Lois in Just Say Noah
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Hack from Nowheresville
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Hack from Nowheresville
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The explanation I heard for US/UK spelling differences (I have no idea where I heard it -- therefore no idea if it's true or just urban myth; but it makes sense) has to do with dictionaries. For a long time, there was no 'standard' spelling -- everybody spelled how they wanted to. I remember reading stuff in classes where one author would change their own spelling!
Then came the dictionary. With 'official' spellings and definitions. Dictionaries were being created in the US and the UK around the same time -- and that's when the US chose a different spelling. Whether it was, as LabRat suggested, to make things simpler for immigrants or, as I had heard, sheer obstinancy and desire to further enforce 'independence,' I have no idea. My gut says sheer obstinancy -- if we truly had been trying to make things simpler for immigrants, there are way too many words we missed!
Bethy
I don't suffer from insanity...I enjoy every minute of it.
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Hack from Nowheresville
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Hack from Nowheresville
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Back again. Sorry Add to things geographical distance and it makes sense that the languages retain differences. I mean, it seems to me that in European nations, the UK English way is taught as the proper form of English. But I'm guessing in Mexico, the US English way is what is taught. Pretty much exactly right. Although as in my example from Poland, it's not always the best way to do it. It is a bit more complicated, because lots of people learn English for functional reasons, to communicate certain things with other people, who probably have also learnt English solely for that purpose. For instance pilots, who only need to learn a set block of phrases. And actually knowing more than that could even cause problems, for example in an emergency, if a pilot used words and phrases outside of the standard group, the air traffic controller might not understand. Helga
Knowledge is knowing that tomatoes are a fruit.
Intelligence is not putting them in a fruit salad.
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To add to this topic, I googled "McGuffy's Reader" but the search results weren't that satisfactory. Try it yourself if you wish. To summarize, a McGuffy's Reader was the standard book to teach all Americans how to read from about 1815 on. In that process they also taught what it meant to be an American since everyone but the Indians were immigrants from somewhere <g>. That book is also where the common traditional proverbs in the US come from. For example: TRADITIONAL PROVERBS:
A barking dog never bites. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush A fool and his money are soon parted. A friend in need is a friend indeed. A new broom sweeps clean. A nod's as good as a wink to a blind man. (e.g., it doesn't make any difference what you do -- they don't know!) A penny saved is a penny earned. A rolling stone gathers no moss. A stitch in time saves nine. A watched pot never boils. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. All that glitters is not gold As you sow, so you shall reap. Bad news travels quickly. Beauty is only skin deep. Better late than never. better safe than sorry Birds of a feather flock together. Chickens will come home to roost. The cream always rises. Don't count your chickens before they're hatched. Don't cry over spilt milk. Don't judge a book by its cover. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Don't spit into the wind. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Early to bed and early to rise makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise. Every cloud has a sliver lining. God helps those who help themselves. Half a loaf is better than no bread. He laughs best that laughs last. He who hesitates is lost. He who laughs last laughs best. Hunger is the best sauce. If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. If the shoe fits, wear it. If wishes were horses, beggars would ride. Let sleeping dogs lie. look before you leap Make hay while the sun shines Might makes right. Money makes the mare go. Necessity is the mother of invention. Never put off till tomorrow what you can do today. One man's meat is another man's poison. One rotten apple spoils the barrel. One swallow doesn't make a summer. Opposites attract. Out of sight, out of mind. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Practice makes perfect. Rome wasn't built in a day. Still waters run deep. the best laid plans of mice and men oft go awry The best way to a man's heart is through his stomach. The blacker the berry, the sweeter the juice. The early bird catches the worm. The end justifies the means. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. The longest journey begins with a single step. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Too many cooks spoil the broth. Two heads are better than one. Waste not, want not. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. What goes around, comes around. What's good for the goose is good for the gander When in Rome, do as the Romans do. where there's smoke, there's fire Whistling girls and crowing hens always come to some bad ends. Who holds the purse rules the house. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. The one thing to be said for it was that it was a unifying force for a rapidly changing culture. I've been following the Tour de France on OLN daily. Two of the broadcasters are American (Bob Roll and Al Trautwig) and two are British (Paul Sherwen and Phil Liggit). One of the teams is called "LIQUIGAS - BIANCHI" after its sponsors. My tendency would be to call it liquid gas (li-quid as in the money), but the Brits consistently call it "leaky gas". Is that a common name for propane in the UK? Now the American's are calling it leaky too. Artemis
History is easy once you've lived it. - Duncan MacLeod Writing history is easy once you've lived it. - Artemis
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Boards Chief Administrator Pulitzer
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I'm reading Order of the Phoenix right now (yeah, I'm behind ) and came across something I'd gotten from context, but really had no clue what it meant. "Are you taking the mickey?" Now, when I first read this, I thought he meant "mickey" in this sense: A Mickey Finn, or a Mickey, is a drink secretly laced with a drug, possibly chloral hydrate, to knock out the person who drinks it. Slipping someone a mickey has become a staple plot device in detective fiction and B-movies. But I knew that didn't make sense for a 15 year old. So my next thought was the slang for "Are you crazy?" - "Are you smoking crack?" Though... that still didn't make much sense for an innocent 15 year old wizard. So I asked in IRC and El told me it was asking someone if they're making fun of you. She also found a website that explains the origins. I'm amused. Sara
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Artemis said: My tendency would be to call it liquid gas (li-quid as in the money), but the Brits consistently call it "leaky gas". Is that a common name for propane in the UK? I'd guess that the Brits are pronouncing it as the company's name is pronounced - I don't follow the Tour de France and I've never heard of the company, but if it's French then Liqui would be pronounced LiKee or something like that. And, yes, taking the mickey is pulling someone's leg or, in US parlance, jerking their chain. So if you hadn't read HP 6 and I told you that Harry died, I'd be taking the mickey. Wendy
Just a fly-by! *waves*
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Thanks, Wendy. I didn't realize there was no "d" in the name until I went to the OLN website and found the team name. It's rather hard to read the team name on a moving jersey. It is a french team and so they are saying LiKee. Artemis
History is easy once you've lived it. - Duncan MacLeod Writing history is easy once you've lived it. - Artemis
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