Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Superman Related Batman v. Superman Fanfic Ideas

In another thread, Mouserocks suggested:

Mouse, I'm curious what you meant by this. (I've really got to break the seal on my BvS DVD as I cannot recall the "Martha" scene at all, unless you meant the two men discussing their mothers.) How would you fix BvS?

I have watched the extended director's cut of BvsS. What a difference those few minutes made. I felt like I was watching an entirely different (and amazing) movie! Too bad the extended cut never was shown in the theaters.

I guess it's time to break the seal on that DVD. This summer, time to watch S10 of Smallville , plus extended versions of SW:A Force Awakens and BvS.

I'll second SupesFan's statements. The extra time really did clear up a lot of the questions and confusions I had had from the theatrical cut. While the movie is still by no means my favourite Superman film, my opinion of it did improve after watching the extended cut. (A warning, though -- the extended cut is a lot more gory than the theatrical one. I fast forwarded through parts of it.)

Joy,
Lynn

*cracks knuckles*

All right, Virginia. You asked for it.

I hated Batman v. Superman. Hate, hate, hated it. It flipping sucked. It is the ONLY DC movie I don't own, and I own Green Lantern.

BUT.

I hated it because it was so close to being a good movie. And I'm not entirely sure whose fault it was. I'm thinking it's the studio's fault, or the editors, or the director's, because all the elements were there of a good story.

First of all, I give DC props for attempting a triple backflip off the highdive when they've barely learned to tread water. They are competing with Marvel. The all-powerful, Disney-owned, instant-blockbuster-success that they are. The fact that they are even competing right now is marginally ridiculous. (Marginally, because I'm predicting the fall of Marvel in a couple of years.) So the fact that they've attempted to make the jump to including multiple superheroes in one movie is incredibly brave, but necessary. They need to prove they aren't just copying Marvel by introducing us to one hero at a time, and adding in hints of a larger world later. Making the jump essentially from Superman to Justice League is bold. And while not entirely successful, it shows good growth.

Their biggest problem is with characterization. You know me, I'm good with some angst. I actually liked the Dark Knight trilogy and I will fight people over Superman Returns, in spite of the lackluster acting, that it too was all the makings of a good Superman movie. (Brandon Routh was an easy sell for me too ) No, I'm okay with having a little bit of grit, dark, or broodiness in my superhero movies. What I'm not okay with is making them passive bystanders where nothing they do matters and everything goes on around them.

This problem would have been solved if they gave each scene an extra, say, ten seconds of actual action. Give me a better reason for Bruce Wayne to hate Superman. Don't hint at a past of destruction and violence and loss that you'll probably address in another movie: make this movie good. Batman versus Superman is an arc that has been done many times over, whether in the comics, the cartoons, etc. I even read a script written by somebody(lol can't remember who now) that was extremely dark and gritty, but at least I felt it was a good, well-thought-through story. They glossed over the point where Bruce and Clark came to see eye-to-eye and found a mutual trust, instead giving them a half-butted moment where they bonded over the very common name of "Martha" and even then, they only gave them a few seconds to reconcile before throwing another villain at them.

Also, I don't know why everybody underestimates Lex Luthor's character in the movie versions of Superman. I don't mind Kevin Spacey's Luthor because he was staying close to the source material, only angrier (also Kevin Spacey is one of my fave actors). I don't mind Gene Hackman Luthor because he fits well with that Superman, but even he's a bit cheesy. Nobody fully realized the potential of Lex Luthor like John Shea did, and instead the movies always paint him to be just this insane, incompetent rich guy who's not capable of actual villainy. I did not need Doomsday yet, Lex Luthor knowing everything about Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne's identities is frightening enough, and I'd already had plenty of fight scenes in this movie, thank you. They just REALLY wanted to play in an Earth-2 universe, and if they wanted to do that, they could have. Fine by me. Just don't sell it as a normal Superman movie.

That all being said, if you do view it through the lens of it's not really a movie of it's own it's just a prequel/prologue for Justice League? Awesome. There was a lot I actually did like. I saw it in theaters twice, and a second watch does help me a lot. I loved the dream sequence, even though it was trippy and weird. I LOVED the Flash coming back through time to talk to Bruce. I loved that they went with the Death of Superman, and it looked like the cover. I loved that Robin is dead (weird, I know but it gives Batfleck some humanity for a split second that he didn't have the entire rest of the movie). I loved that they introduced Wonder Woman (my new ABSOLUTE favorite movie, btw. That and Guardians 2). I loved the way they introduced Wonder Woman, too, as Diana first, even if she wasn't exactly the Diana I was expecting, and her just kind of showing up at the end. I do wish they'd done more for her in the movie, but it's all fair now.

Still not a huge fan of Amy Adam's Lois Lane, but oh well. And it's not even anything against Adams. It's that I *know* she's actually an excellent actress but the roll just isn't flushed out. The same goes for 90% of the casting in this movie, by the by. Ben Affleck has two Oscars, and been nominated plenty of times. I'm thinking it's just the writing wasn't there. They wrote one character, six times over. And I would love to love it, because it's almost good. They just missed a little spot, in almost every scene. A real joke every now and again wouldn't hurt either. I get angst and drama but yeesh.

(Suicide Squad had all the same problems. I felt like I was watching the coolest 2-hr music video I'd ever seen. Fun, but no real punch to it.)

All that aside, I have not yet scene the extended cut, but maybe I'll have to give it a go. It might improve my opinion even more, but it's kind of a pet peeve of mine that Director's cuts and extended cuts are a thing... because if you want to make a good movie, you should just make it good. I shouldn't have to watch hours more of Lord of the Rings to make it good. Pixar can make you laugh and cry and tell you a complete story in less than a minute. I don't care how much you're forced to leave on the cutting room floor, you should still have a complete movie leftover that makes sense.

#endrant

Except to say that YES you should go see Wonder Woman. Not a one of the problems I mentioned with any of their other stuff. Best DC Superhero movie since DC started making Superhero movies. Beats a lot of the Marvel movies too.

Those are excellent points about Batman versus Superman, Mouse. Character development is definitely what's been missing in the DC movies.

I also agree that Wonder Woman was an excellent movie. I wasn't expecting much and was very pleasantly surprised.

Thanks, Mouse. I'm going to see WW on Tuesday (crosses fingers that it's still in the local cinema). We can't wait! I checked my BvS DVD today (I still haven't watched it). I'm hoping it will have those extra scenes, but it looks as if I was given a copy of the regular (theatrical) release and not the director's/extended cut version. I'm still hopeful that those extra few minutes will show up on my DVD, otherwise I'll be bummed.

I agree that adding Doomsday to this movie was overkill (no pun intended, really). As I don't tend to read/watch reviews of movies I actually want to see (LOVED Guardians of The Galaxy, V2, too, BTW), I was surprised by the ending of BvS. I wasn't too keen on it being Lex to created him, though. (I actually thought Kevin Spacey as Lex was the one bright spot in SR.)

I didn't think that Bruce was overly angry at Superman. His character does tend to hold onto grudges against those to cause harm to his friends/family (and apparently his employees). I liked that Batman had a history that went back before Clark became Superman. (We'll have to disagree again on the Dark Knight Trilogy as I found nothing redeeming/redeemable about Christian Bale's portrayal of Bruce. I just found him difficult to like.) Re-reading your note, you didn't like that Bruce was mad at Superman due to what happened in MoS. It was their way of linking the two films and to fix one of the major flaws of MoS (Superman causing or allowing to Zod to create so much wanton destruction of Metropolis without repercussions). I was glad that the anger of the destruction of the city was addressed; even if it did make Bruce seem a bit petty at blaming Superman for what happened (Monday quarterbacking is what I believe this is called. i.e. being upset that someone did something in a different way than you would've, if you could've, which you didn't, because you couldn't.)

The dream sequence with Flash confused me more than anything. I did only see the movie once (that I can recall), so I'll have to wait for re-viewing to see if it's any clearer.

What I loved most about the Diana/WW character in BvS was that she showed up these two alpha males (i.e. made them look like fools) in every scene that they were in. Got to love her.

I agree that the supporting cast was wasted with big talent and nothing to do with that talent. I thought I'd hate Amy Adams as Lois in MoS but she impressed me. (If you haven't seen her in The Arrival, I definitely recommend it.)

So, now, that we've rehashed what they should've done differently. Any (fanfic) ideas on how they could've done it better?

I didn't hate it. I think it could have been better, but I didn't hate it. I do own it on digital and I think I may even have the extended cut, but I think I may have only watched it once.

I have seen the Wonder Woman movie too, and I like that one too. Movie wise, I still love the original with Christopher Reeve.